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Offline Jughead

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Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« on: June 21, 2010, 12:18:19 pm »
Did a quick daytrip to the bash in Alexandria on Saturday.  On the way there, on the Kinkelbos road I heard a clacking noise from the rear of my Dakar.  I thought it was the chain making contact with the underside of the swingarm as it is a little loose, so ignored it.  A little later, after a break I got back on the bike and as I put my weight on the seat, I heard the same noise.

At the bash venue Nemodakar had a look while I bounced the bike up and down and his feeling was that it came from the top of the shock  :o

That kind of put a damper on the rest of the day.  First thing on Sunday morning, I disconnected the shock from the swingarm and moved the swingarm up and down on it's own.  It was quite a relief to hear the noise still there, coming from the swingarm bearings.  When I removed the swingarm the bearing basically fell out.  They are completely rusted and disintegrating.

Phone Continental:  :imaposer: :imaposer:

Bearings: R 79.00ea (4)
Rubber "seal": R 22.00 (4)
Inner Race: R253.00 ea (2)

This excludes VAT and shipping.  And yes, you guessed it!  None in the country.  A 3 week wait and has to be paid up-front.

So I went to see my engineering buddy.  I am canning the needle rollers and fitting Phosphor bronze bushes on SS tubes.  Am also going to fit grease nipples on the swingarm so they can be lubed reglarly.  Will post some pics of the process.
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Offline DUSTRIDERS

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2010, 12:20:42 pm »
Will be a good mod :thumleft:
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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 12:31:14 pm »
Jughead, please tell us how many kilo's your bike has done to date, it will tell us a lot about the bearing in terms of how well it held up (or not).
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2010, 12:43:05 pm »
Bike had done 41K.  I must add though that it has done plenty of water crossings where the water has been higher than the swingarm pivot point.  The swingarm has never been removed and no maintenance has ever been done on the bearings. 

I do feel though that grease nipples will solve most of the problem though, for 2 reasons. 1 is of course the fact that the bearing will be lubed regularly, the other is the ability to pump the empty spaces full of grease and in doing so, getting rid of the dirt/water/crap that is in there.

On the left side the nipple would have to be on the top of the swingarm, on the right it would have to be on the front, between the swingarm and the front sprocket.
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Offline WheeLZ

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 02:03:24 pm »
Would like to see this mod.  My bearing/s at the top of the shock failed....under warranty at least!  But yeah they said it was probably not greased properly and did too many water crossings without grease.  Grease nipples sound good :mwink:
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 04:22:38 pm by WheeLZ »
 

Offline Rotax650

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 02:29:28 pm »
While you're at it, check all the needle bearings in the reaction links at the bottom of the shock and where it connects with the swingarm. 
With every chain renewal, I strip the swingarm and reaction link bearings, and lube with Shell Retinex EP2.
 

Offline lecap

Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 02:42:54 pm »
Phosphor bronze and stainless steel is not a good high load combination & will wear very quickly.
Rather use sandwich compound bearings like these:
http://www.glycodur.com/en/lieferprogramm/gleitlagerwerkstoff/index.htm
Much better than phosphor bronze especially with poor or without lubrication. Also more tolerant to dirt

Also best to use hardened and surface ground steel for the inner race for wear resistance. Regardless of bearings used.

In any case all bushes (actualy their steel inner races) wear much quicker than well maintained needle bearings.
Main problem is the OEM needle bearings being hardly lubricated at the factory. If you grease them as soon as possible and repeat depending on riding conditions every 5,000 - 20,000km they will outlast the bike.
Be careful when servicing as some needle bushes have the needles filled loosely and waiting to come tumbling out.
Grease nipples need quite a bit of additional modifications to make sure the grease gets pressed in in the right place and can exit in the right place too. Else dirt and water will still accumulate and ruin bearings.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 02:43:31 pm by lecap »
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2010, 04:45:01 pm »
While you're at it, check all the needle bearings in the reaction links at the bottom of the shock and where it connects with the swingarm. 
With every chain renewal, I strip the swingarm and reaction link bearings, and lube with Shell Retinex EP2.

It is interesting that while the linkages have actual seals protecting the bearing, the swingarm bearing only have a small rubber ring, almost like an O-ring, but made of square material.  It is also porous and is more like high density foam than a rubber seal.
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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 05:00:11 pm »
Shees,  41K sounds a bit on the few side to me. Surely OEM on a Beemer should last a bit longer? Problem with this kind of thing is that it only needs to happen to a few people for it to turn into a Doohickey scenario, even if you do admit to having done many water crossings.
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2010, 05:24:26 pm »
Shees,  41K sounds a bit on the few side to me. Surely OEM on a Beemer should last a bit longer? Problem with this kind of thing is that it only needs to happen to a few people for it to turn into a Doohickey scenario, even if you do admit to having done many water crossings.


I don't think it's as much a mileage factor as it is a time factor.  Bike is a 2002 model and who knows how long ago the bearing got water in.
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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2010, 05:38:27 pm »
Shees,  41K sounds a bit on the few side to me. Surely OEM on a Beemer should last a bit longer? Problem with this kind of thing is that it only needs to happen to a few people for it to turn into a Doohickey scenario, even if you do admit to having done many water crossings.


I don't think it's as much a mileage factor as it is a time factor.  Bike is a 2002 model and who knows how long ago the bearing got water in.
Good point, especially if you didn't buy new, and you've got no idea WHAT the previous owner did to the bike.
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Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2010, 08:21:00 pm »
my dakars swing arm bearings was shot at 20k

had to replace the swingarm bearings and the steering head bearings all in the same week  :-\

luckily all done under warranty

they showed the bearings to me - they were rusted (water crossings and little or no grease thanks to some lazy german factory working bastard!)

they replaced it all under warranty

the replaced swingarm bearings have done 40k since and they are still 100%  :thumleft:

sorry i cant say the same for the steering head bearings - they were replaced again at 40k (warranty)

by the looks of it they only last 20k - my bike is coming up on 60k and they are still okay - touch wood just maybe this set will last longer  ::)

 

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2010, 08:33:43 pm »
OK just imagine, your brand new bike arrives and they open the box and dust has settled on gooey grease residue, congealed from mere fumes and heat... so marketing says NO RESIDUE!!!!!!!! so cut down grease to a smear..... etc etc....
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2010, 10:08:42 am »
OK just imagine, your brand new bike arrives and they open the box and dust has settled on gooey grease residue, congealed from mere fumes and heat... so marketing says NO RESIDUE!!!!!!!! so cut down grease to a smear..... etc etc....

HUH?  That's like saying "These brakepads make the car's rims black,  NO MORE BRAKEPADS!!!"  :biggrin:
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Offline JAmBer

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2010, 01:33:05 pm »
These bearings are supposed to be checked regularly during servicing, but they're such a pain so i suppose they're ignored. I discovered mine were finished while rebuilding my bike and made a note about it - see http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=27758 for the full story.

But don't buy 'em from BMW. They're standard size. Bearing man NSK FJ-2216? 22x28x16mm open needle bearing,R48+vat each. Auto Atlantic, Continental Cars and JHB all out of stock at R78ea. I bought the last bearing from Continental Cars last year!


Offline Jughead

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2010, 02:05:18 pm »
These bearings are supposed to be checked regularly during servicing, but they're such a pain so i suppose they're ignored. I discovered mine were finished while rebuilding my bike and made a note about it - see http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=27758 for the full story.

But don't buy 'em from BMW. They're standard size. Bearing man NSK FJ-2216? 22x28x16mm open needle bearing,R48+vat each. Auto Atlantic, Continental Cars and JHB all out of stock at R78ea. I bought the last bearing from Continental Cars last year!



Can get the bearings from Bearing for R50 incl.  The problem is that the inner race is BMW only and has to come from Germany.  Someone is walking back from there with it so it will take "at least 3 weeks"  :biggrin:

Having some made up locally at a fraction of the cost.
I came here to drink milk and kick arse!  And i've just finished my milk.
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Offline lecap

Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2010, 09:27:26 am »
These bearings are supposed to be checked regularly during servicing, but they're such a pain so i suppose they're ignored. I discovered mine were finished while rebuilding my bike and made a note about it - see http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=27758 for the full story.

But don't buy 'em from BMW. They're standard size. Bearing man NSK FJ-2216? 22x28x16mm open needle bearing,R48+vat each. Auto Atlantic, Continental Cars and JHB all out of stock at R78ea. I bought the last bearing from Continental Cars last year!



Can get the bearings from Bearing for R50 incl.  The problem is that the inner race is BMW only and has to come from Germany.  Someone is walking back from there with it so it will take "at least 3 weeks"  :biggrin:

Having some made up locally at a fraction of the cost.

You still have to use the right stuff and heat treat it. Roller bearings require quite a bit surface hardness of the races. 1.4301 or 1.4305 "handrails" won't do it ;D
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Fail
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2010, 09:30:39 am »
Yip, quite correct Lecap, thus the reason for going with the PB bushes for now.  When I'm big and have lots of money I may revert back to the needle rollers.  :biggrin:
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