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Offline RobC

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2010, 02:57:15 pm »
Quite honestly... reading article 21 of the Bill of Rights any form of toll on any road is an infringement of this right;

21. Freedom of movement and residence

   1.      Everyone has the right to freedom of movement.

Maybe Afriforum can tackle this for us too?
 

Offline Pleco

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2010, 03:01:24 pm »
You wanna compare cost of living in SA, compared to one of Europe's most expensive countries (UK) ?

I have the numbers, and you'll get the shock of your life.

Worth starting a fred?

Cost of living would not be so much of an issue if Medical, Policing and schooling was sorted with the taxes I pay.

I will happily stay in a caravan in Hardekraaltjie and eat bread, if I know my kids are safe, get proper schooling and won't die in my arms while I wait in a queue at a hospital.

The thread will be very negative if started. But the situation does piss me off though!
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Offline Pleco

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2010, 03:21:14 pm »
These are your options with AARTO irt to paying / fighting / not paying a fine.

The power of the sheriff if it comes to execution of a court order gets a bit much I would say.  :deal:

This comes off the Official AARTOSA government website:

Infringement Notice: On receiving, via registered mail or served in person, a ticket (formally called an Infringement Notice), you have the following options within the first 32 days:
Pay a discounted penalty
Make a representation to the RTIA
Arrange to pay in monthly instalments
Nominate the driver of the vehicle
Elect to be tried in court

Courtesy Letter: After 32 days you will be served with a Courtesy Letter, requesting action within another 32 days (from the date of the Courtesy Letter). Your options are less since you cannot pay a discounted penalty any more. You will also have to pay an additional Courtesy Letter fee. On receiving a Courtesy letter you may within 32 days:
Pay the Penalty (no discount) as well as the fee for the Courtesy Letter
Make a representation to the RTIA
Arrange to pay in monthly instalments
Elect to be tried in court

Enforcement Order: If you do not respond to the Courtesy Letter, you will be served with an Enforcement Order. The Enforcement Order will demand that you pay your penalty, plus the Courtesy Letter fee, plus an additional Enforcement Order fee, within 32 days (from the date of the Enforcement Order). Demerit points will be allocated and recorded against your name. Once the Enforcement Order is served, you do not have any of the previous options left. The only option available to you is to:
Pay the Penalty (no discount) as well as the fees for the Courtesy Letter and Enforcement Order
Apply for revocation of an Enforcement Order

Warrant of Execution: If you do not respond in a satisfactory manner to the Enforcement Order, a Warrant will be issued and handed to a Sheriff for immediate execution. The Warrant may allow the Sheriff to:
Seize and sell your movable property to defray the penalty, fees and cost applicable.
Seize and deface your driving licence and/or professional driving permit.
Remove and deface the licence disks of all your vehicles.
If applicable, seize and deface the operator cards of all the vehicles for which you are the registered operator.
Immobilise all your vehicles.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 03:22:47 pm by Pleco »
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Offline RobC

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2010, 03:23:26 pm »
Like I said... have they run this past the Constitution yet? I am sure it infringes quite a few rights?
 

Offline Dusty Rusty

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2010, 03:28:10 pm »
Het nie alles gelees nie maar dit klink vir my soos 'n Nazi menover.  Ek moet nou juis 'n klomp geld en tyd bestee aan my TW om haar padwaardig te kry.  Ek mis uit op rytyd!  :crybaby2:  Dalk help cleavage (aai foei tog) en fladderende wimpers 'n bietjie?  Moet dit net nie probeer as jy 'n ou is nie!   :imaposer:
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Offline Pleco

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2010, 03:42:10 pm »
Like I said... have they run this past the Constitution yet? I am sure it infringes quite a few rights?

Don't know, But it is law and running in some parts already.

http://aarto.co.za.dedi35.jnb2.host-h.net/public/aarto.html
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Offline Tr0jan

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2010, 04:14:19 pm »
[quote ]
Not collecting registered post is not at all advisable since the Act presumes and deems that delivery has taken place after 10 days from date of posting.
[/quote]

Im not happy with that statement, cause we all know how great the SA postal service is...


Ill follow AARTO if these fu*k bag taxi drivers do... ::)
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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2010, 05:01:57 pm »
Is there gonna be a website where you can check all your outstanding fines?

What about the ones that is currently outstanding, do they get added?
 

Offline Pleco

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2010, 05:22:25 pm »
[quote ]
Not collecting registered post is not at all advisable since the Act presumes and deems that delivery has taken place after 10 days from date of posting.

Im not happy with that statement, cause we all know how great the SA postal service is...


Ill follow AARTO if these fu*k bag taxi drivers do... ::)
[/quote]

There is a gap for them. If you register your vehicle under a company, your fine triples, but you don't get demerit points. If you pay before 32 days, you get 50% off. So as long as they pay their fines, they keep their licenses.
But you don't pay at your own peril.
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Offline Tr0jan

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2010, 05:26:34 pm »
[quote ]
Not collecting registered post is not at all advisable since the Act presumes and deems that delivery has taken place after 10 days from date of posting.

Im not happy with that statement, cause we all know how great the SA postal service is...


Ill follow AARTO if these fu*k bag taxi drivers do... ::)



There is a gap for them. If you register your vehicle under a company, your fine triples, but you don't get demerit points. If you pay before 32 days, you get 50% off. So as long as they pay their fines, they keep their licenses.
But you don't pay at your own peril.
[/quote]

Thats absolute BS! so they can keep on f*cking on as they do, cause they dont pay fines anyway. their licenses needs to be taken! period.
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Offline Pleco

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2010, 05:31:21 pm »
Is there gonna be a website where you can check all your outstanding fines?

What about the ones that is currently outstanding, do they get added?

The existing ones go the old way.

Here is one of the stuff ups with AARTO. No website to check any fines against your name. You have to fill in a request, and take it to the traffic dept. Pay your R60 and stand in the queue.
So no quick check, and if your postman chucks your notice, your in for a shocker.

To be on the safe side, you will have to check every 3 weeks, if you want to stay within the 32 days.

And the second letter will add R60 to the fine, if you did not get the first one. No use to appeal, as the people looking at your appeal works for the traffic dept. Counter productive for them to find in your favour.  :xxbah:

If you decide to take it to court, it now becomes a criminal matter, and you could end up with a criminal record if you lose.

So more of your disposable income going to lawyers for assistance.  :deal:
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Offline IDR

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2010, 09:24:50 am »
OK - sheesh - hold your horses everyone, I think this is becoming a bit of a storm in a teacup!

Please note that all the info Pleco selectively quoted here is from www.aarto.co.za, run by these folks:

Quote from: http://www.aarto.co.za/credentials.asp
Justice Project South Africa (JPSA) is a non-profit organisation that has been in existence since June 2008. This site and all of its contents is owned and operated by JPSA and all information and services provided are the result of extensive research and in-depth knowledge we have conducted and attained.

The official website is at www.aartosa.co.za.  This is also where you can pay your fines, or double-check the facts on the legislation, etc.

AARTO has been running in Pretoria for a while already.  Nothing much has changed, really, from my perspective.  Except that I have 3 demerit points against my name ;D

Also, I actually paid my fine - because you get 50 % discount if you pay before a month is over.

The point, I think, of AARTO is to get more people to pay fines (as they should), punish those that don't more severely (fair enough), and repeat offenders get their license revoked (well now, isn't that a great idea?).

This system is running successfully in many countries in the world... fair enough, majority 1st world - but I think it's good legislation, which, if properly enforced, will make our roads safer for everyone.  

It has also gone through a very long, very public process of being implemented.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 09:25:21 am by IDR »
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Offline Pleco

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2010, 10:00:09 am »
The problem is that the taxis still have a loophole, and that the implementing of the AARTO is geared towards generating extra income to the state.

I looked at both websites, not just the one. I have not seen any public participation here in the WC. The official site has 3 press releases. dated way back.

By the way, how did you get those 3 points? :mwink:
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Offline IDR

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2010, 11:14:14 am »
By the way, how did you get those 3 points? :mwink:

Expired license disk - 3 points and R 500 fine (although it was only R 250 when I paid within the month ;D )

How is it that the taxis have a loophole?  If the vehicle is registered in a commercial capacity, the driver of the vehicle still gets the demerit points, it's only the fine that is higher.
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Offline Pleco

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2010, 11:24:29 am »
If the vehicle is registered with a company, the company have the option of paying triple the fine if they cannot identify the driver. If they can nominate the driver, which might not always be accepted, the driver gets the demerit points and can pay a normal rate fine.

So the taxi guys register their vehicles with a company, and pay the tripled amount within 32 days, and get half off. No demerit points. If they do not pay, the company's assets come into jeopardy.

So they will either have to pay, or bribe to get out of the fine. Either way they will have to pay up, and hopefully start behaving.  :xxbah:

See my comment on my experiences in Tanzania and Uganda. The country becomes so corrupt, that it starts working.  :imaposer:
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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2010, 05:47:05 pm »
what if everyone elect to be tried in court?

for me the best option is to keep your side clean...
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Offline Dustdevil

Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2010, 09:19:28 pm »
One thing that stands clear in our little pathetic South African version of this whole affair is that there is not much of a public transport option for those who have tier licenses revoked.
In the European countries where this system originated public transport makes owning a car almost unnecessary.
 

Offline Hoofseun

Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2010, 07:31:58 am »
Interesting ones

Code   Description   I/O   Fine (R)   Points

1231   Motor cycle, motor tricycle or motor quadrucycle without a number plate affixed to the back of the vehicle  - Reg. 35(7)(e)    I    500   1

5621   Used, displayed or manufactured a number plate which did not comply with the prescribed specifications  - Sect. 68(1)    O    0   6

5087   Operated motor cycle etc. with the feet not resting on the front footrests and where the design of such cycle made it possible to do so, the cyclist was not seated astride on the saddle  - Reg. 309(1)    I    250   0

5091   Operated a motor¬cycle etc. and carried a person, animal etc. in front that was bulky, not securely attached or not in a carrier  - Reg. 309(5)    I    250   0

5092   Driver of a motor cycle, overtook another vehicle at the same time as another driver of a motor cycle overtook such other vehicle  - Reg. 309(6)    I    250   0

5093   Operator of a motor cycle failed to drive in single file  - Reg. 309(6)    I    250   0

5094   When driving a motor cycle, motor tricycle or motor quadrucycle, or was seated on such, took hold of another vehicle in motion  - Reg. 309(7)    I    250   0

5095   Driver of motor cycle, motor tricycle or motor quadrucycle, failed to do so with at least one hand on the handlebars  - Reg. 309(8)    I    250   0

5096   Driver of motor cycle, motor tricycle or motor quadrucycle, failed to ensure that all the wheels of such motor cycle etc. were in contact with the surface of the road at all times  - Reg. 309(9)    I    250   0

5133   Operated a vehicle that was part of a convoy at a time when it was prohibited to do so  - Reg. 318(1)(a)    I    500   1

5134   Operated a vehicle that was part of a convoy over the Christmas period when it was prohibited to do so  - Reg. 318(1)(b)    I    500   1

5407   Used a motor cycle, motor tricycle or motor quadrucycle to tow another vehicle  - Reg. 330(g)    I    500   1

3874   Motor cyclist failed to comply with the directions conveyed by a road traffic sign by proceeding beyond a sign prohibiting motor cycles  - Sect. 58(1)    I    250   0

5017   Driving vehicle on road divided into traffic lanes by appropriate road traffic signs, turned from one lane into or across another lane when he or she could not do so without obstructing or endangering other traffic  - Reg. 299(3)    I    1000   3

5040   Parked a vehicle on a public road in contravention of a road traffic sign  - Reg. 305(1)(a)    I    250   0

5041   Parked a vehicle alongside or opposite another vehicle on such roadway where such roadway was less than nine metres wide  - Reg. 305(1)(b)    I    250   0

5042   Parked a vehicle where the parking constituted a danger or an obstruction to other traffic or was likely to constitute a danger or obstruction to other traffic  - Reg. 305(1)(b)    I    250   0

5052   Parked a vehicle in such a manner as to encroach on the sidewalk  - Reg. 305(1)(e)    I    250   0


Other interesting ones
Code   Description   I/O   Fine (R)   Points

3865   Failed to comply with the directions conveyed by a road traffic sign by overtaking within a distance of 500 metres beyond a no¬overtaking sign. RWC  - Sect. 58(1)    I    500   1

4508   Operated a vehicle at a speed of 136 to 140 km/h which is in excess of the general speed limit of 120 km/h which is applicable to a freeway  - Sect. 59(4)(a)    I    500   1

4509   Operated a vehicle at a speed of 141 to 145 km/h which is in excess of the general speed limit of 120 km/h which is applicable to a freeway  - Sect. 59(4)(a)    I    750   2

4510   Operated a vehicle at a speed of 146 to 150 km/h which is in excess of the general speed limit of 120 km/h which is applicable to a freeway  - Sect. 59(4)(a)    I    1000   3

4511   Operated a vehicle at a speed of 151 to 155 km/h which is in excess of the general speed limit of 120 km/h which is applicable to a freeway  - Sect. 59(4)(a)    I    1250   4

4512   Operated a vehicle at a speed of 156 to 160 km/h which is in excess of the general speed limit of 120 km/h which is applicable to a freeway  - Sect. 59(4)(a)    I    1500   5

4513   Operated a vehicle at a speed of 160+ km/h which is in excess of the general speed limit of 120 km/h which is applicable to a freeway  - Sect. 59(4)(a)    O    0   6

4520   Operated a vehicle at a speed of 140+ km/h which is in excess of the general speed limit of 100 km/h which is applicable to that rural road  - Sect. 59(4)(a)    O    0   6

5053   Parked a vehicle in such a manner as to obstruct any private or public vehicular entrance to such road  - Reg. 305(1)(f)    I    250   0

5085   Operated a vehicle while a cellular or mobile telephone was held in one or both hands or with any other part of the body  - Reg. 308A(1)(a)    I    500   1

5086   Used a cellular or mobile telephone or any other communication device that was not affixed to the vehicle or was not part of the fixture in the vehicle  - Reg. 308A(1)(b)    I    250   0

5110   Left or allowed a bovine animal, horse, ass, mule, sheep, goat, pig or ostrich to be on a road fenced or in any manner closed along both sides, from where it might stray onto such road  - Reg. 313(1)    I    250
   
5111   Drove an animal along a public road during the period from sunset to sunrise without the required precautions  - Reg. 313(4)(a)    I    250
   
5112   Drove animals during the day but failed to display a conspicuous red flag at the front and the back of the herd  - Reg. 313(4)(b)    I    250
   
5400   Operated a vehicle towing another vehicle with a tow¬rope, chain or tow-bar longer than three and a half metres  - Reg. 330(a)    I    500   1

5404   Operated a vehicle towing another vehicle at a speed in excess of 30 km/h whilst the towing vehicle was not connected to the towed vehicle by means of a drawbar or tow¬bar  - Reg. 330(e)    I    500   1

5607   Occupied the driver's seat of a vehicle, the engine of which was running, while the concentration of alcohol in any specimen of blood taken from any part the body was not less than 0,05 gram of alcohol per 100 ml  - Sect. 65(2)(b)    I    1500   5

            



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Offline RobC

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Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2010, 08:05:46 am »
One must also read the regulation in conjunction to the fine wording, I believe a lot of cops only read the latter. :deal:
 

Offline toucan

Re: AARTO new trafic law and demerit system (Steve & Pleco's threads)
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2010, 08:40:16 am »
how many points do you get if you don't have license? how many drivers have one?
i'm not a complete idiot. some parts are missing.