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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #100 on: January 17, 2011, 06:53:52 pm »
Agree, the stuff that converts your plakkies into platforms is the clogger. I was on a ride where 2x XT660Z's had low fenders and 1 of them had a high fender conversion. Only one of the two low fenders got clogged and it happened to be a guy going very slowly, the mud should fling off as it comes free from under the tyre.
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Offline alanB

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #101 on: January 17, 2011, 07:31:17 pm »
Quote
Personally I don't think mud is the big issue here. I never had problems with mud before, but this is about CLAY, not just mud. It's the kind of stuff that collects under your shoes if you walk through it, and eventually make you about 1 inch taller than what you really are. Maybe they just had mud in the Dakar, but not the kind of black turf clay that we encounter here in places.

Ja but why design a super duper racing bike, and risk the outcome of the race,  by a design that will result in the bike being stopped in its tracks if you dont go fast enough, or be negatively affected if you happen to find the "wrong type" of mud, ie clay, we arent the only country that has clay? 


Still doesnt make sense to me. 

Why build something in that is going to cause problems if you dont need to?

Whats the massive benefit of a low fender?  I cant see any, apart from looks - maybe.

So why not just put a high fender on an off road racing bike?   Same goes for an Adventure bike.

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Offline Welsh

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #102 on: January 17, 2011, 07:40:18 pm »
 ::) ::) Cooling, a high front obstructs your radiator, plus it is bad for aerodynamics, it is bad for handling and if you ride quickly a low guard is OK in mud, no offense in many of the clay canal rides some bikes went through other "similar" bikes did not, there is an element of technique in this and Dakar riders have TECHNIQUE and SPEED 8)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 07:41:43 pm by Welsh »
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Offline Tweets

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #103 on: January 17, 2011, 07:43:32 pm »
Na ek al die stront gelees het oor BMWs wat k@k is, gaan ek myne aan die brand steek en by Van Stadensbrug afspring (en vergeet van horses for courses)!

Kom kuir en ry saam met jou, en dan maak ons jou touwys. PM my en ons moet by mekaar kom. On is a lekker groep Big BMW riders in PE.
BY the way. Hartelik welkom hier oppie forum. Ek sien jy's nuut. 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 07:45:27 pm by Tweets »
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Offline RoCky The Dog

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #104 on: January 17, 2011, 08:05:38 pm »
Hou op strooi praat oor jul bikes en gaan ry bietjie.JUll sit en kekkle hier soos n klomp vrou mense.My pa het altyd gese."As mens begin draf is en jy will all die pyne en moegeit weg he,is dit die maklikste om deur dit te druk".Dis die selfde hier.Ry net tot die mudgaurd k@k of JY.Hoopenlik die mudgaurd.
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Offline alanB

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2011, 08:14:44 pm »
Ok whatever.

Still doesnt make sense to me though.
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Offline Welsh

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2011, 08:29:29 pm »
Ok whatever.

Still doesnt make sense to me though.

Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2011, 09:51:42 pm »
Make a remark against BMW on this forum and see how serious some okes take life :3some:
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #108 on: January 17, 2011, 09:52:36 pm »
Een outjie wil glad by n brug afspring.
 

Offline Rolf

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #109 on: January 18, 2011, 08:33:43 am »
Jip, myne ook. Meeste bikes het standaard die probleem.

The one with the knobblies has the low front fender.  Go figure....

Well in this case they both have DS tyres - the front bike TKC and my bike at the rear Heidi K60. The K60 being a litle more prone to collect mud than the TKC. Not sure about the meaning of your post though  ???
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #110 on: January 18, 2011, 04:32:58 pm »
Doesnt make sense does it?  Those Dakar bikes cant be immune to the problem - but maybe they assume there's no mud in the desert?

If its prone to clogging, even if you manage to avoid it siezing up by going fast it must at least affect the handling and performance?


True I see the sand and desert thing, but there was a hell of allot of mud as well I think stage 10 or 11 was just a mud mess and they only seemed to worry about radiators. Don't understand it just does not compute.  :eek7:

Personally I don't think mud is the big issue here. I never had problems with mud before, but this is about CLAY, not just mud. It's the kind of stuff that collects under your shoes if you walk through it, and eventually make you about 1 inch taller than what you really are. Maybe they just had mud in the Dakar, but not the kind of black turf clay that we encounter here in places.

A low fender stop water spraying forward and blown back into your face. Someone on the forum removed his low fender from his 1200 and this was his complaint. (Grootseun with his dakar without the low fender can maybe comment) I presume this is why mx bikes have a fender that looks broken so that the tip can get low down to stop the spray from going into the air.

Take the gs dakar without the low fender again (or the shoes mentioned above), depending on the mud or clay it will only build up to a certain level and will then shear off on its own.  The clay under your shoe will not build up to say 10inches.  The maximum for this is most likely about 1inch if I could guess.  So if you have a low fender with 1 inch or more clearance you should be ok. Changing to a bigger tyre or a knobly with deeper treads might just reduce the critical gap and cause clogging.

This is my take on it.
 

Offline RoCky The Dog

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2011, 07:30:05 pm »
Ok whatever.

Still doesnt make sense to me though.

Dint expect it to.You ride a washing machine that is moer expensive :laughing4:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2011, 07:36:02 pm »
Page 6 and the BMW still has design flaws?? :peepwall:
 

Offline RoCky The Dog

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #113 on: January 18, 2011, 07:40:33 pm »
Yes. You looking at a bmw page when you ride a Yamaha.LoL. :imaposer:
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Offline Rooikat

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #114 on: January 18, 2011, 07:41:48 pm »
Page 6 and the BMW still has design flaws?? :peepwall:


 :biggrin: ...And that's only the front mudguard.
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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #115 on: January 18, 2011, 07:42:46 pm »
Page 6 and the BMW still has design flaws?? :peepwall:


Nog design flaws oom Daan, vertel meer asseblief, ons wil alles weet?
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #116 on: January 18, 2011, 07:53:58 pm »
Man, ek het gehoor dat party van die goed so kwaai kan ping, en dan is daar modelle wat waterpompe weggooi, en daai bekende ou flexi-flier voorvurke, en die canbus wat vir Solly Kramer so besigheid stuur, en die faainil draaifs wat nie altyd drive nie, en die paralever wat die ou groot GS se kop so in die sand in druk, en ai-ai die sidestand switches, en die HP2's wat so stof suig, en die batterye wat sonder waarskuwing dood neerslaan, die oudmodiese droee koppelaar wat geen straf kan vat nie, die vreeslik blootgestelde klepdoppe, die patetiese shopping trolley voorwiel, en natuurlik vars in die geheue is die 562 BMW's wat die Dakar begin het........maar klaarmaak is min.
 

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #117 on: January 18, 2011, 07:57:17 pm »
Man, ek het gehoor dat party van die goed so kwaai kan ping, en dan is daar modelle wat waterpompe weggooi, en daai bekende ou flexi-flier voorvurke, en die canbus wat vir Solly Kramer so besigheid stuur, en die faainil draaifs wat nie altyd drive nie, en die paralever wat die ou groot GS se kop so in die sand in druk, en ai-ai die sidestand switches, en die HP2's wat so stof suig, en die batterye wat sonder waarskuwing dood neerslaan, die oudmodiese droee koppelaar wat geen straf kan vat nie, die vreeslik blootgestelde klepdoppe, die patetiese shopping trolley voorwiel, en natuurlik vars in die geheue is die 562 BMW's wat die Dakar begin het........maar klaarmaak is min.

:laughing4:

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Offline RoCky The Dog

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #118 on: January 18, 2011, 07:59:03 pm »
 :imaposer: :laughing4: :imaposer: :laughing4: >:D
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: BMW design flaw
« Reply #119 on: January 18, 2011, 08:31:28 pm »
Quote
Personally I don't think mud is the big issue here. I never had problems with mud before, but this is about CLAY, not just mud. It's the kind of stuff that collects under your shoes if you walk through it, and eventually make you about 1 inch taller than what you really are. Maybe they just had mud in the Dakar, but not the kind of black turf clay that we encounter here in places.

Ja but why design a super duper racing bike, and risk the outcome of the race,  by a design that will result in the bike being stopped in its tracks if you dont go fast enough, or be negatively affected if you happen to find the "wrong type" of mud, ie clay, we arent the only country that has clay? 


Still doesnt make sense to me. 

Why build something in that is going to cause problems if you dont need to?

Whats the massive benefit of a low fender?  I cant see any, apart from looks - maybe.

So why not just put a high fender on an off road racing bike?   Same goes for an Adventure bike.


We use the low fender on rally bikes because it gives a lot more stability at high speeds. The high fender not only makes things more unstable, but it also increases the wind resistance and therefore top speed. This is why dakar bikes have low fenders.

HOWEVER we also take along high fenders for the simple reason that low fenders don't like thick mud; changing fenders that night if we know the next day will be a muddy one. If you look at this years Dakar footage on stage 12 you will see that ALL of the top guys changed their fenders for the day, for obvious reasons.

Having said that, a low fender is not really a problem in mud (most of the time), especially if you are moving at pace, but its not something one normally takes a risk with if you have a high fender availible and you know you will be riding in mud.

Saying it is a BMW design flaw is bullshit. Its not.  :tool: :laughing7:

They put the low fender on those bikes because the vast majority of BMW's sold are riding on tar roads at high speed, and this lends to the stability of the ride and lower fuel consumption. With this in mind, it would be a design flaw to have a high fender on a 1200.

To be honest, no bike is really designed for thick mud, as can be seen in the second picture where Cyril is trying to clean the crap out of his radiator at the refuelling point.


And Vaalseun, ek sien jy is a nuwe ou hierso. Careful with statements like that, the forum whores will come down on you like of a ton of bricks.  ;D  :3some:

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