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Offline Metaljockey

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Ride reports integrity
« on: April 08, 2007, 03:03:03 am »
I just checked out Superjuice's Buff report http://wilddogtours.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6036&highlight= again as it kept coming up (scuse the pun).

Unfortunately the report which I had enjoyed before had turned into:
Real men have control over these things

don't think you have a right to preach

you have no fucking right to take any moral high ground on anything

a fucking anal, preaching do gooder

I wonder if you will talk like you write if I ever had the priviledge of meeting you

we can meet and I can assure you that if you try and preach to me in person, I'll tell you to fuck off

Now I've got a sour taste in my mouth (scuse the pun again).

I do not visit the Ride Report section to see this kind of thing. I visit expecting to read stuff and look at pictures that will give me joy, or amaze me, or make me laugh or learn about places I need to see.

When I read the report the first time I also felt uncomfortable about the puking scene. Then I figured, hey, it's a ride report, SJ is not holding back on relating his experience. It's real life, not fiction nor fake. I respect that. A good ride report needs to be honest and forthright so as to be able to make the reader 'feel' it. Anything less is not good enough.

SGB clearly felt a little stronger about it. He also felt that the issue of the 'biker image' should be discussed. Fair enough. But this is a RIDE REPORT, not a biker image discussion. A new topic preferably in Jou Ma (it will inevitably escalate) would have been the better option.

Everyone who has done a ride report knows that it is a fair amount of work. It should not be sullied by replies from others.
A lot of visitors to this site read these reports, a lot of people (like myself) like to reread the reports. None of them/us want to read about personal spats. The internet is already overrun with badly managed sites where 13 year olds run riot.

I would like to propose a Ride Reports rule.
If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing. If you have a problem with the author, pm him (or e-mail or phone or ride over to his house). If you feel that your problem is of general interest, then start a thread.

I would also support a motion that the mods summarily delete posts that transgress.

Thank you for letting me say my piece.

Offline Oetie

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2007, 10:41:00 am »
I fully agree with MJ!!!!

I second the proposal: "I would like to propose a Ride Reports rule.
If you have nothing good to say, then say nothing. If you have a problem with the author, pm him (or e-mail or phone or ride over to his house). If you feel that your problem is of general interest, then start a thread.
Live life to the fullest!!


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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2007, 11:47:24 am »
Yip. Agree. Ride reports are neat, and should be there for enjoyment. The debate, take it elsewhere. Maybe the mods can do a clean-up job on it.

Offline tok-tokkie

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2007, 12:08:15 pm »
I am new to this adventure riding scene.  The most inspiring ride report I have read was MetalJockey's Koakoland report in ADVrider.  He took imense trouble over that report.
SuperJuice wrote a really good report here.  Certainly I would not want to tag along on escapades like that but it was a candid and valid report of the trip he & his mates did.
I quite understand that others dissaprove of quite a bit of the behavior reported.
But I agree with MetalJockey; it is a pity that a good report gets into personal dissing in the posts that followed.  If the complaints had been put in fresh thread with a link to the original (just as MetalJockey has done here) it would have been much better.  I agree entirely with Oetie's proposal as a rule for this board.

Offline michnus

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2007, 12:18:25 pm »
We have said form the start we don't want to over moderate the forum, and especially ride reports because it's a real life story a person is telling us, and for the fact that we need open mindedness and understanding to all types of people and their experiences we will allow the story teller some freedom to express themselves.

There are stuff that we will allow in ride reports, but that said people must accept it then in that manner, like a naked Himba woman, or Superjuice's experience.

What was said is done if the majority people want it clean up we will. We did not act on the response because you must also accept criticism on your report, however I agree personal dissing is not allowed, you are quite correct.

At last, less crude words and expressions would have lead to more favourable responses between them.

Offline JourneyMan

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2007, 01:30:29 pm »
Opinions, impressions, advice, experiences, healthy debate. That's where it should stay. Whether ride reports or any other sections of this board.

Oh, and some bullshite as well. :lol:

Sometimes personal clashes degrades/takes attention away from a very good thread. Sometimes I totally loose interest in a stunning thread because of personal attacks.

But we are people and try to communicate using the internet and smily icons. Mis-understandings and  mis-interpretation of postings will sometimes happen, resulting in "shouting matches". :roll:  :) Not saying it is OK. But luckily the occurance of this is few and far inbetween.

I'm sure when the same people get together over a beer, the same will not happen. :wink:

My humble opinion.
He who angers you, controls you.

Extreme Velcro

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2007, 08:10:15 am »
This is such a delicate one to voice an opinion on.  I would hate for the forum to become over-moderated.  All of us should be allowed to comment freely as long as it is polite (relatively).

Criticism is cool and if we wish to debate an issue further, it would be nice to see it happen without the really unpleasantness that the particular thread we are discussing degenerated into.

There will always be times when we don't agree with each other and as long as we maintain our views in a polite manner and handle criticism with some aplomb, it should all be fine.  

Having said all of that, I am aware that it is often easier said than done, but at the same time, if we put ourselves out there with what we have done or our opinions, I suppose we must expect what we get in return.

As I have mentioned before though, I see the forum as a place to hide away from the horrors of today's world and from the general ill-mannered society we do all have to deal with on a day to day basis, so I hope that we can continue any debates around issues in an upbeat and positive manner without have to be horrible to each other.

My pathetic one cents worth........

Offline Zonkelmonk

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2007, 08:54:59 am »
I have to agree with MJ. He is the one guy on the forum that really write good reports and inspire me. Lets not fall into the same route as most of the other forums.

Keep ride reports clean!!!!
100001 110010 1101010

Offline KiLRoy

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2007, 12:43:50 pm »
Agreed, and well said MJ.  I'll update the ride reports rules as soon as we are on the new platform.

Point is - discussions and opinions are welcome, but do it in the right way - don't taint the rr, rather start a new thread addressing the issue and refering to the original thread as an example.


Offline SGB

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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2007, 07:48:17 pm »
Thanks for bringing the point up here MJ:

I have often disagreed with people on this forum and others, and others have disagreed with me.  By publishing your story in the public domain, you open yourself to reaction from others.  But never have I seen someone take the comments as personally as SJ did here and never have I been spoken or written to like in this thread.  And I have no problem with that.  And I have no problem with SJ and his friends.  I was trying to comment on an act, not the person.  Most of us on the forum don't know each other.  SJ does not know me, and he speaks from his heart.  I have welcomed members of the forum into my house and on rides, just because they are members.  And I have never disliked anyone from the forum when I actually met them.

I also hear what is said above, and I promise to shut up in future.  Maybe the ride reports section should be closed to comment from others, like the BMW website ones.  All you really see there is "Cool report", "Great pics", "Epic ride", "I wanna do that too" and other notes that don't really say anything.  If that is all we are allowed to say, then lets read the reports and argue in other sections if we feel the urge to do so.  

And lastly, I sincerely apologise for the comments made - I can understand that they could be taken personally.  The mods are welcome to delete all my posts there, no problem.  But if they stay, all you have is my personal opinion, and that has not changed, and nobody needs to agree with that.  NO PERSONAL ISSUES.

I would still like to buy SJ a beer one day.  And thanks for all the PM's and e-mails.  :)

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Do not believe everything you think....

Offline Eisbein

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2007, 03:27:42 pm »
Good show on eating a little humble pie, although I don't really think that it was totally necessary.

 What follows is my opinion and my opinion only...

From what I could gather it was a rather 'interesting' response from SJ back to you about your comment.

Every time you tried to clarify your point of view SJ got a little more agitated.
As far as I can tell all MJ's quotes was from SJ and not you.
(I reserve the right to smoke my socks here)

If at all I think you can (maybe) be faulted for keeping on trying to clarify your point of view. But even that is a long shot. It might be that after the 2nd try you could have both took it 'offline' in PM's. But like I said I didn't really see too much wrong there and it takes two to Toi-Toi.

The fact that you replied now on this thread in the way that you did tells me in any case that you have the 'greater good of the forum' at heart.

I usually back away when I get involved in a discussion that looks like it could explode.

Like I said this is just my opinion, but I also think that it takes a great man to apologize (and take responsibility) for something that you were only partially involved in.



Edit: Oh and MJ, I forgot earlier - not only in this case but in general I totally agree with your post. Thanks for bringing it up (and the way you said it).
02/02/12 - RIP Glen - the Arrow of Elliot and the little man with the big heart that truly was larger than life.

You have touched us and left us better for having known you - even if it was only briefly.

For grabbing the moment and living the day It's been way too early that you were taken away

Extreme Velcro

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2007, 03:52:42 pm »
So Thys when you get your bike back, you owe us a ride report!!!

Yip, I second that !!!!!

Offline Lito

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Ride reports integrity
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2007, 03:55:52 pm »
Personally, I liked what SGB had to say, and particularly in context of having met the (big) man.

SGB, publicly, I want to say well handled, you indeed have spades of character which came out nicely in your responses. Nothing but respect.  8)

I personally wouldnt want to kuier with SJ or Nic - I am not into those drinking spats or kotching episodes. Done that, bought the bathroom floor.

To each his own, but I do think the mods should have moved the whole bang shooting match to Jouma, and if it escalated into personal threats then lock the thread and give the offenders a weeks cool off banning.

Simple, effective moderation.

Nice post MJ, one can see your profession from the way you write.