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Online RobC

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2011, 09:12:46 am »
Change is one of the greatest certainties there is.  ;)  

As this forum is growing at an amazing rate, and the number of new riders joining the ranks increase, the original values from the early days will slowly crumble under the onslaught... back then, being hard-core, tough, un-breakable, etc were qualities held in high regard, but now it seems that things are changing.  Not that there is a problem with that, but I miss a lot of the 'original' riders, they are now very scarce here.  

We sit now with a situation where we have to find the new line of acceptability in planning for events and gatherings.  This could back-lash on the forum, as costs could increase (knocking some riders out) or the event organisers could feel that the effort required is beyond thier availalbe time/desire.  

I feel that in essense, we are "Adventure Riders"... and we should cover ourselves as far as possible.  If you have interesting info pertaining to a location/event, put it up or forward to the organisers.  Guys, get pro-active yourselves if you think it's important, not dump more work/effort onto organisers.  

Maybe we can find a middle ground...

My 2c
I think that when a bash is put together the organizer should state clearly what is offered/planned. That way no one can come back later and refute anything. Organisers should state that KISS will be applied. :mwink:
 

Offline DSNewbie

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2011, 09:14:44 am »
At least this thread makes people think about the subject, mission accomplished I say.

Approach every ride as a "solo" ride, from a self-rescue point of view, and all will be well.
The fact that you are then riding with buddies just elevates safety/rescue to a much higher level.
 

Online RobC

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2011, 09:16:00 am »
At least this thread makes people think about the subject, mission accomplished I say.

Approach every ride as a "solo" ride, from a self-rescue point of view, and all will be well.
The fact that you are then riding with buddies just elevates safety/rescue to a much higher level.

A very good way to approach any ride! :thumleft:
 

Offline JourneyMan

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2011, 09:19:12 am »


Kamanya explained the legal responsibilities. So go figure. Its just a matter of time before an arsehole sues or whatever.



Unfortunately that is the truth. Just a matter of time. American-sue-everybody-never-my-fault-syndrome is starting to take place in SA.


If I may toss my 5c worth in here!
Our Wild Dog bashes have become a lot more than a "party" and as such need a better approach to the way they are planned. I think the time has come that our esteemed leaders draw up a "hand book" on bash planning and make it a uniform affair. Not Bike SA style, but more a way it is planned and executed. 


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Online RobC

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2011, 09:23:50 am »

Kamanya explained the legal responsibilities. So go figure. Its just a matter of time before an arsehole sues or whatever.


Especially after April 1... CP law comes into play.  :-[
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 09:37:34 am by RobC »
 

Offline buzzlightyear

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2011, 09:24:24 am »
If you want medical backup, recovery vehicle etc why not go on Moto Avontuur's rides rather than a WD bash  :lamer:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
 

Offline Ama ride ride

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2011, 09:26:02 am »
Cocky

Lets take the BMW GS challenge as an example. The idea behind the GS challenge was also to get GS owners to get out and go and ride.  It grew from a 94 (??) attendance to well over 800 (??). They had everything in place. Medical backups galore, food, bar, , workshops etc etc. Yet the riders still fell themselves in their moer. There even was a death. I attended the second one. It costed R990pp. The last one costed over R3000. Yet there was still complains from suur gatte. And where is the GSC today?

I made comments on this forum in 2006 that there was too many riders riding routes above their skills level. This led to high insurance claims and a result that BMW insurance did not cover the GSC any more. I have also seen how riders fall them moer toe sumply cos they was so jacked up.

To organise a bash is a big headache and everybody does it for the LOVE. Complicate it and everything will grind to a halt.

It will happens and soon bashes will only be by invitation.
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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2011, 09:26:23 am »
If you want medical backup, recovery vehicle etc why not go on Moto Avontuur's rides rather than a WD bash  :lamer:
:thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
 

Offline Pistonpete

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #68 on: March 30, 2011, 09:50:02 am »
The input here is all valid. It's a heads up for future gatherings.

All we actually need is more qualified para-medics, effective radio communications and some satellite phones.

If anyone can sponsor the last two items please come forward!  :thumleft:  :)


'Routine is the thief of time'
 

Offline Grrrr....

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2011, 09:57:40 am »

Offline DSNewbie

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2011, 10:06:59 am »


Until you fall and break something...
 

cocky

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2011, 10:08:32 am »
Cocky

Lets take the BMW GS challenge as an example. The idea behind the GS challenge was also to get GS owners to get out and go and ride.  It grew from a 94 (??) attendance to well over 800 (??). They had everything in place. Medical backups galore, food, bar, , workshops etc etc. Yet the riders still fell themselves in their moer. There even was a death. I attended the second one. It costed R990pp. The last one costed over R3000. Yet there was still complains from suur gatte. And where is the GSC today?

I made comments on this forum in 2006 that there was too many riders riding routes above their skills level. This led to high insurance claims and a result that BMW insurance did not cover the GSC any more. I have also seen how riders fall them moer toe sumply cos they was so jacked up.

To organise a bash is a big headache and everybody does it for the LOVE. Complicate it and everything will grind to a halt.

It will happens and soon bashes will only be by invitation.

Ama, I hear what you are saying and we do NOT want our bashes going that route, however what I am proposing is a degree of uniformity in the organising and taking cognisance of the fact that the organisers have a degree of responsibility in ensuring that things are run orderly.
I am not for one minute proposing that we go the GS challenge route, keeping in mind that there is a cost to all the "nice to haves", however I think we need to get the "brand" out there and attract people to DS biking, in it's purist and simplest form, which is what the majority of us strive to do?
 

Offline Freak

Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2011, 10:10:37 am »
The input here is all valid. It's a heads up for future gatherings.

All we actually need is more qualified para-medics, effective radio communications and some satellite phones.

If anyone can sponsor the last two items please come forward!  :thumleft:  :)




I THINK NEXT TIME YOU ORGANISE A BASH... DONT GIVE A TYPED OUT INDEMNITY... WRITE THE BLOODY THING WITH A ARTLINER KOKI AND KEEP IT SIMPLE..

I HEREBY PROMISE TO COVER MY OWN ASS...AND WHEN I SIGN THIS, I WILL RESPECT MY BODY AND NOT TRY KILL MYSELF...

SHOULD I HURT MYSELF,OR DRIFT OFF FROM THE PLANNED PLAN OR ROUTE,  PLS  MY FELLOW RIDERS...HELP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

I for one, have ordered my ice tag and wear my attgatt and leatt as much as possible... So what happens happens..

After this incident i have also realised that i am a tad slack, and in future will give my next of kin all the available info.

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Kawa KDX 200 - sold ZX - 6R - sold Suzuki GSXR 1000 K4- broken and in the bin Suzuki GSXR 1000 K5 - sold BMW GS 1150 - sold KTM 950 adventure S - sold Currently:  '79 BMW Bobber '63 BMW R50/2 '62 BMW R60/2 with sidecar '54 BMW R26/2 ... Still in kit form '74 BMW R75/6 custom .. In progress '82 BMW R80 G/S
 

Offline Pistonpete

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2011, 10:11:47 am »
Cocky

Lets take the BMW GS challenge as an example. The idea behind the GS challenge was also to get GS owners to get out and go and ride.  It grew from a 94 (??) attendance to well over 800 (??). They had everything in place. Medical backups galore, food, bar, , workshops etc etc. Yet the riders still fell themselves in their moer. There even was a death. I attended the second one. It costed R990pp. The last one costed over R3000. Yet there was still complains from suur gatte. And where is the GSC today?

I made comments on this forum in 2006 that there was too many riders riding routes above their skills level. This led to high insurance claims and a result that BMW insurance did not cover the GSC any more. I have also seen how riders fall them moer toe sumply cos they was so jacked up.

To organise a bash is a big headache and everybody does it for the LOVE. Complicate it and everything will grind to a halt.

It will happens and soon bashes will only be by invitation.

Ama, I hear what you are saying and we do NOT want our bashes going that route, however what I am proposing is a degree of uniformity in the organising and taking cognisance of the fact that the organisers have a degree of responsibility in ensuring that things are run orderly.
I am not for one minute proposing that we go the GS challenge route, keeping in mind that there is a cost to all the "nice to haves", however I think we need to get the "brand" out there and attract people to DS biking, in it's purist and simplest form, which is what the majority of us strive to do?
If an organiosor is made liable for incidents this whole thing will fizzle out.
All we are doing is creating an environment in which to meet and ride together.
'Routine is the thief of time'
 

Offline Snafu

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2011, 10:17:38 am »
If you want medical backup, recovery vehicle etc why not go on Moto Avontuur's rides rather than a WD bash  :lamer:

And then it is R650 pp for one night.

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Offline DSNewbie

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #75 on: March 30, 2011, 10:20:14 am »
If an organiosor is made liable for incidents this whole thing will fizzle out.
All we are doing is creating an environment in which to meet and ride together.

Summed up nicely  :thumleft:

On the trip planning threads there is usually a lot of banter, what booze to take, who shares a tent with who, etc., it would not cost anyone anything, or place assumed liability on anyone, to post tips on some of the "rescue" things to consider, like contact numbers of rescue services and hospitals on or close to the route, who on the ride is medically trained, what to pack in your personal medic kit (apart from your favorite drink), and so forth.
Also to highlight the remoteness and possible risks (a bit nanny style, but lessens the "I did not know there is no cell phone signal there" type of crap)

This will definitely assist the newbies, and a number of seasoned riders too.

Also, for most "extreme" sports, it does not harm anyone to go for basic first aid training, for yourself and your potential riding buddies.
It is also not very expensive, and could be done to supplement tech days and how-to-fix-punctures days.

Always be prepared to take responsibility for yourself!
 

Offline Chairman Meow

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #76 on: March 30, 2011, 10:48:41 am »
Good point PP- The GKG was the first of these kinda bike related events that I organized and although it was fairly simple to do I only had to deal with 20 plus riders.
I must say that after that experience I take my hat of to you for dealing with such a large crowd + sponsored prizes + collecting and distribution funds.
A lot the arguments in this tread makes sense and there seem to be a clear divide between the hardcore-each-his-own approach AND the safety-and- comfort approach vs cost.
Somewhere there must be some degree of middle ground.

I fully support the fact that it would be unrealistic to hold a orginizer/s responsible for liability on crashes or similar predicaments, but in the same breath some basic info can't be more hassle to provide than th actual orginizing of such an event anyway.
The issue also becomes harder when dealing with such a large group in the middle of nowhere.

The other argument could also be that maybe with all the medical back-ups and safety nets it could encourage some riders to take bigger risks knowing that help is just around the corner.

In the end these are party-vibe get-together's where booze and good times go hand in hand and somewhere along the line there are motorcycles thrown in for good measure it waill always needless to say up the risk factor.

As said before, these type of events are brought together by enthusiastic and willing riders for the love of biking and sharing a weekend together......anything/everything else beyond that point would be difficult to put in place without it effecting the cost and will to do it dramatically.

Thus the more people and remoteness of event  the bigger need for safety and logistic back-up but the also bigger cost factor

or maybe another way to look at it would be-

The more people to an event the cheaper cost when divided by participants for medic and back-up but still a lot more stuff to orginize.

A true Chicken & Egg situation...  

    
 

Online RobC

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #77 on: March 30, 2011, 11:01:41 am »
C Meow
My experience has been more on the MX/Off road level and there we also have the chicken-egg parameter.
Everyone wants to pitch and ride but no one wants to pay to do so yet expect top notch facilities for mahala...
That aspect and attitude from today's participants has soured my enthusiasm for to say the least. :xxbah:

So if needs be let us keep things simple with the clear understanding that all the organizer will do is get and book a venue for X date/period, collect the fees for said venue and that is the sum total of responsibility on their part. :deal:
The organizer can then state the obvious for those to lazy to do some research on the venue; :deal:
Cell reception
Nearest medical response and contact details
Number of bushes to use for ablutions
etc.

(ag there we go again complexing the issue!) :imaposer:
 

Offline Ama ride ride

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #78 on: March 30, 2011, 11:03:21 am »
Meow

Where does one draw the line? Who is responsible for medical help?

A.) If I ride the R355 alone and fall cos of my own stupidity
B.) If I get invited to ride the R355 with friends and I fall cos of my own stupidity
C.) If Piston Pete organise a lekker get together near the R355 and I fall cos of my own stupidity.

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Offline Pistonpete

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Re: Medical Facilities at Bashes
« Reply #79 on: March 30, 2011, 11:08:52 am »
Meow

Where does one draw the line? Who is responsible for medical help?

A.) If I ride the R355 alone and fall cos of my own stupidity
B.) If I get invited to ride the R355 with friends and I fall cos of my own stupidity
C.) If Piston Pete organise a lekker get together near the R355 and I fall cos of my own stupidity.


+1

People must recognise the spirit in which we participate.
'Routine is the thief of time'