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Offline Horse1

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DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« on: June 29, 2011, 10:16:53 am »
Hi all,

My DR was heli coiled by previous owner/ Suzuki Toystore Centurion did it on the oil drain plug.

I have done 8000km on the DR and myself and the agents is unable to stop the drop. Maybe in a week's commuting so 3-4 drops on garage floor.

I have used crush washers and normal copper, plumbers tape, gasket maker and so on but it still drops. I know it is not serious but I do not like it......... looks if I do not care for the bike.

Any suggestions please (and I torque it 17 - 20)
 
 

Offline lecap

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 10:31:25 am »
HeliCoil will never work on a sump plug.

It's rubbish from word go and I'd avoid a workshop that uses a helicoil on a sump plug like the plague since it shows not much beyond ineptitude and cluelessness ::)

HeliCoil is to be used ONLY on bolts that do NOT require regular disassembly because you can bet on the coil to sooner or later dislodge.
HeliCoil should NEVER be used on spark plug threads or sump plugs or the likes where a gas tight seal between the thread insert and the part it is fitted into is essential.

Best way to fix stripped sump plug threads is either fitting a suitably sized TimeSert spark plug thread repair insert or to remachine to a larger diameter thread and larger sump plug.
The first option has the huge advantage that the TimeSert spark plug tool kit cuts a new sealing surface for the plug washer which is perfectly perpendicular to the repaired thread. Difficult to achieve when enlarging the thread unless you can get the crankcase onto a milling machine :-\
TimeSerts are cold rolled into place after fitment which makes the fit gas tight and secures the insert permanently.
Interestingly the outer diameter repair thread needed to fit either HeliCoil or TimeSert are identical for a given finished thread diameter means a TimeSert requires exactly the same amount of "meat" around the damaged thread to repair it.

How to fix your problem:
Firstly find out why the plug leaks:
Clean thoroughly and inspect for hairline cracks around the drain hole.
Then get a new aluminium sump plug washer. Don't get one of those huge ones it must not be larger than the o.d. of the sump plug. Aluminium is better than copper because it's softer and it stays malleable after being compressed as opposed to copper which work hardens after being deformed and thereby contributes a good deal to stripped threads in aluminium sumps.

Fit and tighten sump plug.
Remove plug & washer and check the compressed washer if it compressed all around meaning the thread is perpendicular to the washer seat.
If it's only compressed on one side measure the difference. It's probably something like 2/10mm or 3/10mm. Fit two new alli washers on top of each other, torque sump plug and turn 1/4 to 1/2 turn further to compress the rings until they seal. Not a very nice method since it puts uneven load onto the thread but if the Helicoil is fitted properly it should take it.
Another option would be to get the sump plug washers turned: Instead of the rectangular cross section of a normal alli washer get something made with a sealing ridge which protrudes and gets compressed on assembly. This design will be able to take more misalignment.

In any case if the sump plug thread is misaligned I'd safety wire the plug to prevent it from coming loose.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline Horse1

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2011, 01:05:50 pm »
Hi Lecap,

Your advice and knowledge is as always very much appreciated.
I will follow your lead and feel your advice will do the trick.

My neighbor also told me to go to an hydraulic place and asked for a hydraulic fibre washer and to use the washer allone or in combination with aluminium washer.

Thanks so much
 

Offline lecap

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2011, 12:19:51 pm »
Do NOT use anything except shaped steel crush washers (they are once off items too!!!), aluminium washers (best, can be used more than once if unavoidable) or copper washers (can only be used once since they work harden) on a sump plug.

If you want to use a fibre washer safety wire the plug since the fibre washer will not secure the plug.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline Inprogress

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011, 03:25:48 pm »
Don't follow my advise however I have in the past reused copper washers. Heat them till they are red hot, then quench them in water. Makes them soft again ready for use.
If an idle mind is the devil's workshop, then a busy mind is God's canvas

 

Offline lecap

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2011, 10:32:25 am »
Yes you do that until you learn that a box of 100 alli sump plug washers is cheaper and less hassle :cheers:
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline Inprogress

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2011, 03:28:48 pm »
Yes you do that until you learn that a box of 100 alli sump plug washers is cheaper and less hassle :cheers:

Unfortunately I most likely wont need a 100 washers for sump plugs in my lifetime....but it is a thought. Plus I like to, where I can, Repair, Reuse, Recycle. But I will keep it in mind thanks  :thumleft:
If an idle mind is the devil's workshop, then a busy mind is God's canvas

 

Offline SuperDavexlv750r

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2011, 03:45:56 pm »
How's this for a repair on my DR650R.

Previous owner used Pratley steel and sump plug seals great. WTF. >:(

Says I should now remove complete sump plate where there are 3 bolts and where the sump plug fits to doam oil change!!!

So now I need to either machine sump plug out and then machine new hole to fit a threaded bush or simply replace all the offending parts!!!!

The challenge is that this is a 1992 model and the motor changed in 1996. Spares are not easily obtained.

How I wish people would do proper work when encountering problems rather than looking for quick fixes.
If you don't wings - you will never fly!

Honda XLV 750 R, Suzuki DR 650 R, Honda CBR1100xx (Blackbird), Honda XRV 750 Africa Twin, Suzuki RF 900 R, Yamaha FJ 1100, Honda CBX 1000, Suzuki GT 750, Yamaha DT 125
 

Offline lecap

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2011, 10:21:23 pm »
Yes you do that until you learn that a box of 100 alli sump plug washers is cheaper and less hassle :cheers:

Unfortunately I most likely wont need a 100 washers for sump plugs in my lifetime....but it is a thought. Plus I like to, where I can, Repair, Reuse, Recycle. But I will keep it in mind thanks  :thumleft:

Better to use alu since it's cheap and a noteworthy portion of our planet is made of it - centuries supplies even considering increasing demand and without considering the very feasible aluminium recycling.
Unlike copper which is very expensive and very rare and probably all mined & made into sump plug washers for Inprogress within the next three decades :D
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." (Red Adair)
 

Offline Inprogress

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Re: DR 650 heli coil leak please help
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2011, 10:57:53 am »
Yes you do that until you learn that a box of 100 alli sump plug washers is cheaper and less hassle :cheers:

Unfortunately I most likely wont need a 100 washers for sump plugs in my lifetime....but it is a thought. Plus I like to, where I can, Repair, Reuse, Recycle. But I will keep it in mind thanks  :thumleft:

Better to use alu since it's cheap and a noteworthy portion of our planet is made of it - centuries supplies even considering increasing demand and without considering the very feasible aluminium recycling.
Unlike copper which is very expensive and very rare and probably all mined & made into sump plug washers for Inprogress within the next three decades :D

I are special and therefor I are be getting my copper washers for special for me by mining  :D
If an idle mind is the devil's workshop, then a busy mind is God's canvas