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terminator1

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Deep water?
« on: July 11, 2011, 02:10:21 pm »
Scenario: Riding through deep water which covers the air filter on a 2T enduro bike (300 XCW). Filter gets soaking wet as it is side mounted behind a panel below the seat. Bike runs perfectly without a splutter.

Removed air filter for a clean today - dripping wet.

Would some water have gone into the engine (probably)?

If so, would it cause any damage? It didn't affect the running in any way at all.

 

terminator1

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 02:13:25 pm »
Follow up Q: is this a benefit of 2T engines over 4T: Water don't matter so much?
 

Offline Dux

Re: Deep water?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2011, 02:22:10 pm »
If it didn't affect the running then I wouldn't think that water would have gone through the motor , but to be sure oil the air filter and take it for another ride to confirm .
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Offline PEET WEET

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 02:59:19 pm »
If your`e airfilter was well oiled it would have probably stopped the water! Those ktm 2T`S are bulletproof,if she got a bit of water throug her you wouldn`t even have noticed,maby some light splattering but  if she got some lekker water in she would have just died on you.So don`t worry if she`s still running she`s fine   ;) Few years back got my 300 up to the bars in water,she died.anyway a tow back home,new oils,drained water,110 hours till i sold her and never missed a beat.!!

And yes i think the 4T`s are much more sensitive to any water and much harder to get going once they get any water in!! And you have to drain all the oils before she`s out of any danger too !! I think it will be wise to change your`e gearbox oil too on your`e 2T,although it can`t get any oil/petrol from the motor it`s usualy a good idea to change it if you have been in deep water anyway  ;)

Send Dirtwarp a pm he knows a few things about these steeds if your`e still a bit worried  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 03:01:15 pm by PEET WEET »
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terminator1

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 03:17:52 pm »
 :thumleft:
 

terminator1

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2011, 03:19:42 pm »
ok cleaned and dried the filter in parafin, re-oiled and refitted with grease. First kick and purring like a dream. No harm done it seems.
 

Offline PEET WEET

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2011, 03:28:26 pm »
EEEYHAAA Those 300. NOOIT KAK NIE. wens ekt nog een gehaad ma eks te bleddie dik nou sukkel ek met 4T`S  :thumleft:
KTM   --  KRONREIF  TRUNKENPOLZ  MATTIGHOFEN
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Offline Motties

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2011, 11:04:43 am »
J-Dog - change the oil as a matter of course, you don't need much water in there and rust waits for no-one. Or at least remove the oil level check screw and check for milkyness.
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Offline Kenisis

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2011, 11:58:00 am »
J-Dog

Here is something for you to ponder on.

Do you know that it is customary for top fuel dragsters to add water via a pipe to the inlet manafold so that they can add more horsepower as the Water breaks up into Hyrdogen and oxygen giving the fuel a higher octane rating and making it burn more fuel.

But having said that remember in the real top dogs rebuild the engine every run so its good for around 3min of running.

So all in all probably not a good idea to do this often!
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terminator1

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 02:57:16 pm »
thanks everyone. did an oil change a few minutes ago and ...tada...water in the oil!

how does it get in there?

anyway all good - clean filter, new oil and still starts on first kick!

(btw what a bike to ride. anyone in the market for a 2T MUST ride the 300 before buying)
 

Offline Bappas

Re: Deep water?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2011, 03:26:03 pm »
Good foam filter oil will not let the water through. If you drown the bike it is important to ride it for as long as possible afterwards in order for all the moisture to evaporate. If it starts and you
switch it of it will have some damage afterwards. Same story with boat engines.
If it drowns. Close fuel tap. Remove spark plug. Turn the bike upside down (on handlebars and seat) Put in gear and turn the engine with the back wheel in order to remove water. (Some GASGAS models have drain plug in casing to avoid this)Sometimes you would need to get some water out the exhaust by holding the bike upright (like a wheelie) When there is no more water coming from the engine turn it right way up. Replace plug Drain carb (Big nut at the bottom)preferably wash while open by opening fuel tap. Close Carb. Take out air cleaner and wring dry. Replace air cleaner. It should the start with a bit of trouble.

Ride for as log as possible after this the moisture on the bearings needs to evaporate!!!
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Offline Motties

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2011, 03:36:12 pm »
While your motor is running with air being pulled through your filter at a large flow rate, I don't see a oiled foam filter sealing perfectly against water ingress under these conditions, i.e. being suddenly submerged.

Anyway, whenever I have water ingress on my bike I do a second oil change after a single ride. If an oil & water emulsion has formed, you are not going to simply evaporate the water out.

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Online RobC

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2011, 03:39:01 pm »
thanks everyone. did an oil change a few minutes ago and ...tada...water in the oil!

how does it get in there?

anyway all good - clean filter, new oil and still starts on first kick!

(btw what a bike to ride. anyone in the market for a 2T MUST ride the 300 before buying)
2strokes have breathers on the gearbox... probably got in that way. Lots of okes think 2strokes are water resistant... NOT. :mwink:
 

Offline Bappas

Re: Deep water?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2011, 03:39:18 pm »
If the whole filter is not under water  Good oil will keep water out. However one completely
submerged nothing helps

While your motor is running with air being pulled through your filter at a large flow rate, I don't see a oiled foam filter sealing perfectly against water ingress under these conditions, i.e. being suddenly submerged.

Anyway, whenever I have water ingress on my bike I do a second oil change after a single ride. If an oil & water emulsion has formed, you are not going to simply evaporate the water out.


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terminator1

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2011, 03:39:59 pm »
thanks everyone. did an oil change a few minutes ago and ...tada...water in the oil!

how does it get in there?

anyway all good - clean filter, new oil and still starts on first kick!

(btw what a bike to ride. anyone in the market for a 2T MUST ride the 300 before buying)
2strokes have breathers on the gearbox... probably got in that way. Lots of okes think 2strokes are water resistant... NOT. :mwink:

ah! I was talking of water in the gearbox oil, not in the engine. makes sense rob.
 

Online RobC

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2011, 03:49:36 pm »
ah! I was talking of water in the gearbox oil, not in the engine. makes sense rob.
Usually does not get much in, just enough to make the oil milky, if you had kept on riding long enough it may evaporate out as mentioned by Bappas but often this type of mishap happens near the end of a ride... ken mos vir Murphy.
You should not have any serious damage though if you changed it soon afterward.
In a 4 stroke it is a different matter, it is amazing how quickly bearing races and balls can rust and that ruins them. Engine oil has all sorts of acids and stuff that just jump at the chance to react with metals when water is added.
 

terminator1

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2011, 03:53:51 pm »
there are two issues here right?

water in the gearbox oil, and water in the engine?

some of the posts above seemed to imply that water taken in through the foam gets in the gearbox oil.

surely two different scenarios?

water in engine from the air filter inlet: drain through plug etc.

water in gear oil: change oil etc?
 

Online RobC

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2011, 03:59:36 pm »
water in engine from the air filter inlet: drain through plug etc.

water in gear oil: change oil etc?
Correct
From what you describe you did not really drown the bike... it did ingest some water as droplets I assume, otherwise you would have piston and bearing/crank damage = bike will not run.
Then you also got some in through the gearbox breather it seems.
My rule when I see water is if you cannot judge how deep it is it is too deep. :deal: :mwink:
I think water is very often underestimated and leads to unnecessary engine catastrophes.
You were fortunate! :thumleft:
 

Offline Bappas

Re: Deep water?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2011, 05:03:56 pm »
My post was on what to do if you are still out there!!! When you get home you
would need to drain and change gearbox oil. However the evaporation we need is in the crank case itself. Even after having run for 10 or so minutes there is still a significant amount of moisture
in the bearing and seal area.
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Offline Motties

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Re: Deep water?
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2011, 10:59:26 am »
My post was on what to do if you are still out there!!!

Agree

I won't get into an argument here but I will just say that amongst some good, there is some funky advice given here as well. Remember there is only one oil circuit on this bike your motor and gearbox sees the same oil. 

Warm your bike up and drain the oil again. The fact that your bike runs well says absolutely nothing about the condition of the lubrication. You will not evaporate moisture out of your oil.

I have drowned far too many 2T's and 4T's (not something I am proud of) - never had crank or piston damage, a 2T and 4T's bearings rust in the same way. Often had to pump water out via the plug and ride the bike back - I actually prefer not to run the bike until an urgent oil change is done - if possible.

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