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Offline man0war

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No2Tolls
« on: August 16, 2011, 08:31:31 am »
PLEASE KEEP THIS TOPIC SERIOUS. This is a serious matter where a number of us are putting time, money and effort in to really do something here, so please don't post crap in this topic. We would welcome and and all assistance, constructive comments, etc. (ALL LEGAL PLEASE GUYS, we do not want to get ourselves or the mods into any kak here)

Mods please could you make this a sticky, for ease of finding.

As many of you would already know we had our first meeting on Sunday 14 Aug to discuss a strategy and action plan. (see http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=73503.140 for some background info)

the following points are taken from the minutes of our meeting on Sunday


Campaign name: No2Toll

A decision was made that we will drive a blanket NO TOLL campaign. We are not limiting ourselves to only bikers, but stand for motorists also. We want to gain support, and in some cases align ourselves strategically with the likes of COSATU, the AA, the Afriforum, the DA and so forth. We are to drive this forward through any and all legal means possible. Our first task is to create awareness and thus get public participation. We want mass participation and not just verbal support or sympathy. This needs to be stopped here in Gauteng, or else it WILL roll out to the rest of the country.


Our Mission:

No Urban Toll roads!
a summary of the pillars of our arguments to the powers that be

a.   Multiple payments for the same services
b.   No control over future increases / implementations etc.
c.   Increased cost of living
d.   Increased suburban traffic



Please feel free to add to the above list, comment and give us some ideas!!!! or pledge your support to the cause.
 

Offline punisher

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 08:45:32 am »
.intrested
just wanna have fun , and ride ... and ....... ride
 

Offline EmuL8

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 08:58:20 am »
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Offline JK

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 09:03:25 am »
I am in
When u are on tar u are lost  !
 

Offline man0war

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 09:16:17 am »
So far offers for assistance that we have received are : Web designs and web hosting. Thank you to BlueBull2007 and Xsniper. Are there any guys on the forum who can print us some ( more like lots of) stickers?

 

Offline SmokenFly

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 09:31:02 am »
Great drive and initiative im in
 

Offline corne69

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 09:54:02 am »
I'm in
Live........and let live
 

Offline RobC

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 10:10:36 am »
Can I make a suggestion?
No Tolls Period! Tolling as I say infringes my right to freedom of movement as enshrined in the Constitution.
There should be no exception. :thumleft:
 

Offline man0war

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 10:42:03 am »
i agree with you, however we have to fight one battle at a time to win this war. the battle for now is urban tolls. once we achieve our objective, and depending on the fuel in the tank then, we may well decide to take the rest of the tolls on then.
 

Offline RobC

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 10:49:40 am »
i agree with you, however we have to fight one battle at a time to win this war. the battle for now is urban tolls. once we achieve our objective, and depending on the fuel in the tank then, we may well decide to take the rest of the tolls on then.
Ok I see your point! :thumleft:
 

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 10:50:50 am »
I think urban commuter route tolls are wrong. however national roads etc tolls , with an escape route are good. IMHO
 

Offline RobC

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 10:58:46 am »
I think urban commuter route tolls are wrong. however national roads etc tolls , with an escape route are good. IMHO
The problem is that alternate routes are falling apart and even more roads are becoming toll roads while our fuel levy gets spent on buying Corvettes... the naval kind. >:D
 

Offline man0war

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 10:59:30 am »
national tolls are no longer wrong, as we have become used to them in our lives. hell most of us do not know the n3 to dbn without the toll gates. be that as it may, we are now fighting urban tolls. we have to put a stop to this, or where will it go???? how much control will we have once the tolls are in place??? so we now get a discount for frequent usage. there is no guarantee that the price will remain fixed, or the discount fixed, or both for that matter. urban toll roads are just wrong on sooooo many levels. how would you guys like 18 wheelers driving past your house in the middle of the night, as they are avoiding the toll roads??? or past your kids school. or where you once lived in a nice quiet street, you now have to wait 20mins to get out your driveway in the morning to go to work????
 

Offline man0war

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 11:02:33 am »
yes, there are alternate routes to the urban tolls, but in this case the alternate routes are going right past our doorsteps!!!!  you think suburban traffic is busy now, if the tolls get implemented it will increase tenfold at least.
 

Offline RobC

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2011, 11:10:34 am »
Bloemfontein will soon be tolled on all it's N routes... not fair at all.
I will support the urban no toll but if it is successful the campaign MUST continued to remove ALL tolling.
I still feel a Concourt case can be made on the freedom of movement right when applied to road tolling in general.
This right has no subclauses or other impediments like some of the others. It is plain and clear that we have the right to free and unrestricted movement! This avenue should be explored. :deal:
 

Offline jogi_c

Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2011, 11:20:28 am »
That is why we are looking at urban tolls only at this stage.

At the moment the national tolls are operated by private companies, and as far as I can see they are doing a good job at maintaining the roads and keeping things in working order.

The Gauteng urban tolls will be for the benefit of SANRAL, the same guys that are currently screwing up the reast of the road network in SA.

Apart from already paying for road maintenance through income tax, fuel levies etc. we will now be paying additional tax for using the road, with no relief in sight for the other forms of tax. Btw, estimates (bacause SANRAL refuses to give the info) is that 85% of the toll fees will be going towards the company operaing the toll system. So that leaves 15% for the actual rapayment of the loan, maintenance, administraion etc. So it is very much a case of paying for the sake of paying, not paying for the sake of establishing anything better.

So some of the earlier arguments that the loan must still be repaid is maybe not as valid, as the majority of the money will be in the hands of the toll operator, and not used for repaying loans or maintaining the road
 

Offline RobC

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2011, 11:41:19 am »
The Gauteng urban tolls will be for the benefit of SANRAL, the same guys that are currently screwing up the reast of the road network in SA.
The above is valid for N Road Tolls as well, they are also operated by private companies on behalf of SANRAL and maintenance is also falling behind imho. So they are also not being operated as originally intended. If the No2Toll is valid for urban roads then it is valid for all roads. Maar ek sal saam kom toi toi. :mwink:
 

Offline SmokenFly

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2011, 12:07:58 pm »
IF they do end up implementing the toll fee system for bikes, or lets say when they do! My i suggest a drive once a week we all get together as many of us as we can possibly get and then ride in single file one behind the other occupying and many lanes as possible, no lane splitting no riding next to each other take up as much of the road as possible.

Lets make a point that riding bikes is a time saver for us and the cagers reduces carbon cheaper on fuel, we should not have to pay Toll fees and we should not feel like we can not lane split.

Just a thought
 

Offline jogi_c

Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2011, 12:17:52 pm »
IF they do end up implementing the toll fee system for bikes, or lets say when they do! My i suggest a drive once a week we all get together as many of us as we can possibly get and then ride in single file one behind the other occupying and many lanes as possible, no lane splitting no riding next to each other take up as much of the road as possible.

Lets make a point that riding bikes is a time saver for us and the cagers reduces carbon cheaper on fuel, we should not have to pay Toll fees and we should not feel like we can not lane split.

Just a thought

IMHO the idea is to stop ALL urban tolls, not just for bikers. The idea is to get popular support from everybody that will be affected by this
 

Offline ChrisvS

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Re: No2Tolls
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2011, 12:19:45 pm »
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