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Author Topic: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)  (Read 33959 times)

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Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #660 on: March 10, 2012, 06:03:02 pm »
Enjoy the ride WC-tomorrow I've got boarding house duty the whole day. Will check out the site.thx. Can't wait to actually friekn ride the DR!!! Man! This is taking too long..
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 06:19:28 pm by volroom »
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Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #661 on: March 11, 2012, 08:07:43 am »
Why is that bashplate of yours different to ours Veemax? I think Suzuki did make alternative bashplate-seems you got it. Here's mines and WC's. That R 1800 for LeCap's Bashplate WC, not R1300.

I might have a problem..Suzukie Edenvale. They gace me wrong front sprocket. Got it replaced..after trying to fit the chaim today it seems they gave me another wrong one....

Look at the photo, in neutral I spun the back wheel with chain on-the chain every now and then wants to climb off the front sprocket. I'm thinking the new DR's takes 525 sprockets and chain, the Pre-96 take 520 chain and sprockets. Would a 525 front sprocket do that - as seen in the picture?

If this is the wrong front sprocket again...

I might add that I went from a 16 front sprocket to a 15...and had to even mod the retainer cap holes as it seems that they would only fit a 16 tooth font sprocket!! tel me please that somehow you can't change the 16 tooth front sprocket at all on the Dr!?
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Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #662 on: March 11, 2012, 08:45:24 am »
Screen sorted mcguyver style using door stops for spacers. Reason why I want space between existing front fairing and Dakar screen is to get the same effect that "tobinators" afford-less buffeting
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Offline Wildcoast

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #663 on: March 11, 2012, 01:33:08 pm »
I think pro-cycle offers a mod for different sprockets
 

Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #664 on: March 11, 2012, 01:51:59 pm »
I think pro-cycle offers a mod for different sprockets

Any comment on this...does it therfore mean that you can't friekn change the bloody front sprocket on the old DR's except with some mod!?
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Offline Wildcoast

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #665 on: March 11, 2012, 06:23:30 pm »
I think it's more of a case of sprocket availability in our chain size, the mod changes your chain size, hence better front sprockets choice in new chain size

Keep the gearing as is, worked well in the dirt today.
 

Offline Wildcoast

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #666 on: March 11, 2012, 06:29:24 pm »
Did 200Km of mixed riding today, bike handled well on the fast dirt and slow technical stuff, consumption a bit high, not a tar road bike at all, slow and vibrates like hell!!!!!  :o

One for Veemax, us Vaalies also get out, on top of Breeds neck.....
 

Offline Veemax

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #667 on: March 12, 2012, 12:04:22 am »
Aitsah !!! Nice to see it out and about , and lookin' PURTY and all . Is you side stand a bit short maybe ?  :-\

Whatcha call bad consumption then ? I'm almost never under 23km/L .... if your's is under 21 then maybe it's a problem?

VIBRATES ? Come come .... not ridden a KTM640 then ?  Or are you used to straight-six marine engines ???  ;D
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Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #668 on: March 12, 2012, 10:41:17 am »
I think it's more of a case of sprocket availability in our chain size, the mod changes your chain size, hence better front sprockets choice in new chain size

Keep the gearing as is, worked well in the dirt today.

I didn't mod anything really. The bike take 520 chain and sprockets, which I supposedly have. But for some reason the chain wants to come of the front sprocket. If the front sprocket is a 525, will it do that?

I wanted to change the gearing slightly because the the jerky nature ala BST40 at low revs. In town you can't always open up. So wanted to get the revs up a bit and opted for 1 tooth less than stock front sprocket: 15

I need to know what's wrong so I can AGAIN go to Suzuki..do I have a 525 front sprocket instead of a 520 perhaps?

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Offline Wildcoast

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #669 on: March 12, 2012, 06:19:24 pm »
UUUUUUM! try about 13 to the liter  :peepwall: lifted the clip on the needle today to lean her up a bit , but she had no legs over 120 on the ride  :-\
Thinking of going back to stock needle and jetting  :biggrin:
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 06:27:58 pm by WILDCOAST »
 

Offline Hagar

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #670 on: March 12, 2012, 06:42:30 pm »
Volroom, although the 520 and 525 share the same pitch, (length of chain link and roller diameter is the same)

However the with of the rollers differ.  Inner with on the 520 is  1/4"  6.35mm.   On the 525 it  is 5/16"  almost 8mm.  I do not know how much the actual thickness of the sprockets differ.  I guess that differs a bit from brand to brand.  Might be your problem.
 

Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #671 on: March 12, 2012, 07:42:20 pm »
Volroom, although the 520 and 525 share the same pitch, (length of chain link and roller diameter is the same)

However the with of the rollers differ.  Inner with on the 520 is  1/4"  6.35mm.   On the 525 it  is 5/16"  almost 8mm.  I do not know how much the actual thickness of the sprockets differ.  I guess that differs a bit from brand to brand.  Might be your problem.

Thx Hagar..but would a different width cause what I'm seeing: the chain wants to come of periodically on the front sprocket - that means that the teeth does not go in where it should at the chain, a tooth would actually be in between the rollers..if you look at the photo you'd see what happens periodically. I don't know..phoned Suzuki. might be taking the new sprocket back again...

Question: can you change the front sprocket on the old DR's? The retainer plate which is held by those three bolts (that holds the front sprocket on the splines) seems to indicate that your stuck with a 16 tooth front sprocket...has anyone changed to smaller front sprocket? Man...murphy you bleddie bliksem!!!!!
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Offline Wildcoast

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #672 on: March 12, 2012, 07:57:15 pm »
gearing won't cure surging, play with carb, my bike hardly surges now even in first gear slow rocky stuff, just chows juice and makes soot like a chooka train  :biggrin:
 

Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #673 on: March 12, 2012, 08:13:14 pm »
Ron Ayers sight  -  no info on front sprockets!! no one had such an issue before?

I bought this plastic net material.. I'm thinking of gluing it over airfilter hole..that's HOLE. Idea is to act a some kind of filter for big particles..does this make sense? Any comments?
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Offline DeepBass9

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #674 on: March 12, 2012, 08:13:15 pm »
If you rjetting is right the bike shouldn't surge. Mine doesn't. An the cure for chugging under 3000rpm is a 47 rear sprocket!

Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #675 on: March 12, 2012, 08:22:51 pm »
If you rjetting is right the bike shouldn't surge. Mine doesn't. An the cure for chugging under 3000rpm is a 47 rear sprocket!

Thought I'd sort it out going smaller on front sprocket - same affect. One tooth less than stock front sprocket same us upping rear with three teeth. They also told me that 42 tooth rear was biggest rear sprocket avail...sometime I wish I lived in first word country..
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Offline Veemax

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #676 on: March 13, 2012, 08:17:01 am »
Ahem. My STOCK bike with STOCK chain and STOCK carb does not surge. When you mod an airbox you lose positive crankcase ventilation , and you affect the vacuum ... ever so slightly....on the upside of the carb diaphragm .... these two properties balance the fine control of the slide at part throttle .... now add a worn slide with air getting past under conditions of high engine vacuum .... what do you have ? Erratic lean behaviour and surging. With an open airbox you have to invest considerable time tweaking the needle height to try to overcome the new set of conditions existing in the fine control of the fuel/air stochiometry. It's not for the faint hearted !

Over-rich ( a la WC @ 13km/L ) will certainly overcome surging ! The trick is to get it Right. This means 10 to 20 times fuel tank removal playing with washers and shims and needles until you get it right. It's wise to get everything else in order first....float height, idle screw, any worn parts like needle/nozzle/slide etc and be bloody sure your valves are spot on.

Sorry I can't help with the chain issue, I always shop with the old part in hand as a rule, so that way when I walk out with a replacement it looks like the one that works !

I had a mesh on my very open KTM640 airbox to keep chunks out , held in place by hotmelt glue ( on roughened plastic ).

On my new DR I have removed the snorkel and made one round additional hole on top , no screen ... and the main jet was upped from a 140 to 150 and the needle height is std. This leads to a very slightly lean condition at mid-throttle on a cold day at the coast, but as soon as the day warms up or I head inland and UP, it comes bang into the zone, and I get 23 even 25 km / L on the new DR.

Funny the old DR runs a smaller main jet .... I guess this is because the valve overlap and therefore open-duration of the SUCK phase, is longer due to the cam ... meaning there is more air volume going through the engine at a given RPM, and therefore more TIME for fuel to atomise from the nozzle...

What I learned with my Old DR project, is that the needle/nozzle wear condition is really the Hinge Factor in any attempt to set up the carb properly. In theory the needle/nozzle clearance should only affect tuning over 1/3rd throttle position, but I found the blerrie thing affects the whole BAND of throttle conditions.

My advice : Replace these parts with NEW, set the floats to spec, get the engine hot and get the idle circuit right ... then if you have a modified airbox, get to work on trying to get the needle height right. If it surges it's lean , if it makes soot its rich, if it behaves erratically all over the show and you can't win .... ( as in my case ) .... get onto Motolab and buy a new slide and new slide guide....and like magic, your oldtimer thumper will ride like the day it came out the factory !!! : ) : )

I've pondered this airbox question. My bike goes like SNOT , I see 170-175 kph with ease. I'm gonna leave it all alone, and if I want to go fast, I have 1200cc's of Stage 2 fury that embarrases italian sports bikes that cost for times as much  :ricky:

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Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #677 on: March 13, 2012, 09:22:53 am »
wow..technical stuff there Veemax. I'm off to the dyno rather
Have heard that newly packed packing in zorst needs to bed over couple of 100km's at lowish revs otherwise if you wack it it can damage packing. So before I go dyno, I will do some mileage at low revs - that's if I can get my bloody front sprocket right.

How do you know that the engine is running lean VM? I've got no idea if it's lean and don't want to damage engine. Besides surging is there some way to tell? What are the circumstance when you burn a valve? Obviously I want to avoid that

Thx, I will then fit that net over airbox HOLE.

Cheers
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Offline Veemax

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #678 on: March 13, 2012, 11:31:17 am »
Lean clues as follows:-

1) Loss of power
2) Surging ! Particularly under no-load or light-load conditions
3) Needs choke much longer, and more choke .. cold blooded, slowly slowly gets better as engine and engine oil warms up
4) Detonation, pinking
5) Rides horrible when cold and during warm-up
6) Performs better all round only with engine piping hot
7) White / Light spark plug
8) Light colour exhaust ( white in the old days of lead ) , or 'orange .' hue with LRP
9) Bluing of chrome headers
10) If you are In Tune with engines, you can almost "feel" the flame-front inside the engine burns faster, closer to a Bang than a Burn.
11) Very good fuel consumption !
12) Burnt valves or melted piston crowns ( extreme ! )
13) At full throttle, high speed,  if you roll off slightly , it picks up !
14) The Lamda censor on the dyno is above the ideal line ! Hhahahahahahahahhahaaaaahahaaaa

Of course the question of LEAN or RICH applies differentially to load, throttle position, engine RPM, ambient temp, alititude, barometric pressure, which blerrie circuit in the carb you are addressing, everything.

I tune for precise mixture at full throttle ( for power ) , slight lean on mid throttle for economy and hot / high conditions, and slightly rich at idle for quick warm-up and to prevent coughing off during the first phase of riding from a cold engine.
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Offline volroom

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Re: Older DR 600/650 thread (Pre mid 90's)
« Reply #679 on: March 13, 2012, 09:14:40 pm »
Wow, that's a lot to take in. I just want to avoid burnt valves as much as possible. So, loss of power - surging (giving throttle only to find a delayed power delivery) would be the main ones to look for..

You know a lot about bikes. Yah, why not - keep your DR as is. If you need to feel the power you have other bikes to do that on...come to think of of it, so do I...

But..everyone to his own devices!  :thumleft:
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