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Offline BiG DoM

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JD Tuner and other delights
« on: January 24, 2012, 01:56:51 am »
Still in the process of 'going through' and finessing my TE610. In addition to initial basic lube servicing and new rubber front and back, I have done the chain and sprockets and fitted a set of Pivot Pegs I picked up at a good price second hand. Great pegs and gave me the opportunity to change the infamous peg bolts and true the surfaces! I have also worked the airbox a bit and done the PU conversion and a caterectomy of the zorst.

Most recently I dived in and set the valves that appear to never have been done  :eek7: They were VERY tight and actually could not get a feeler gauge in  ??? At the same time I fitted a JD Tuner (Power Surge 6X) that I also picked up secondhand off Cafe Husky. Lots of talk and support for these tuners on that side of the pond. Anyway all I can say is that the scoot I was already impressed by is transformed - not sure how much is the valves and how much the tuner. Really perky, quick throttle respose, smooth power curve and can also chug along very controllably and happily if you want slow technical. I consider JDT excellent value for money and is plug and play. It is a power comander unit very similar to the Techlusion ones I have run on my BMW's with six tuning zones but certainly cheaper and as good. (www.JDJetting.com)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:05:15 am by BiG DoM »
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Offline alanB

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 03:09:07 pm »
Did you get a chance to compare to Powered Up without JD Tuner vs with JD Tuner?

How much of a difference did it make?

Use a lot of words so that I can try and work out whether its worth the bucks for me (which I dont have  :P).

I originally resisted the PU because I thought the bike went OK.  But then kicked myself afterwards because it made such a nice difference.

How comparable an improvement is it to that?
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2012, 04:09:16 pm »
Did you get a chance to compare to Powered Up without JD Tuner vs with JD Tuner?

How much of a difference did it make?

Use a lot of words so that I can try and work out whether its worth the bucks for me (which I dont have  :P).

I originally resisted the PU because I thought the bike went OK.  But then kicked myself afterwards because it made such a nice difference.

How comparable an improvement is it to that?

Hi Alan - As I said a little difficult to say how much has been a change in performance due to the valves being set or the JDT as I did them at the same time but I would certainly say that I think the JD has made a significant difference. I would venture to say that it is incrementally the same quantum leap again as the PU. I was really astounded. I will take it for another ride later today or tomorrow and also take it on the road which I did not on Sunday. I took it up a regular track - twinsppor with some loose rock and then a steep incline ... then flatish gravel with some sand and washaways and then some single track stuff. All conditions were highly manageable with the front being a bit twitchy on a brand new T63. What I like about this bike and certainly has not changed (but rather improved) is the lowdown tractability - one can climb slowly and controlably (unlike my HP2 and previous CRF250 that start wanting to leave one behind if not very careful). Essentially power comes on alot stronger and in a very eager but linear and controlable manner - if you are quick on the throttle the front will want to come up and in the loose the back wheel wants to spin. It is really now the bike I had hoped it would be - I found with cat and non PU it was a bit KLR'ish ... now it is it's own animal. I think the JD really compliments the PU and decat.

The JDT I got (the Powersurge X6) had been bought by a Cafe Husky member for a 510 and not even fitted by the look of things - got it in original packaging with all the stickers, instructions etc. for $140 including postage. I asked that he mail it in a padded envelope as a gift and came right through no duty or handling. I e-mailed James Dean who was very prompt and confirmed that it was the right unit for my 610 and the standard settings were almost identicle except for one range that is slightly different. I have not changed or adjusted any settings yet. The unit is easy to fit - tank must come off though. Would I pay $200 for one - I think yes.
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Offline alanB

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 04:57:07 pm »
Thanks Dom

That helps a lot  :thumleft:
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Offline Xpat

Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 07:03:27 pm »
Hi

I have 630 with PU kit, Arrows and racing ECU, drilled airbox with EHS filter and I have added JD Tuner as last. I did not expect much of a change - I thought the biggest difference will be from drilled airbox (which did give quite a boost), but I have to say that JD made quite recognizable difference. Primarily the bike revs easier and smoother and without realizing it already on the first ride I started to rev the bike over 7000 rpm. Before I usually did not find reason to go over 6500 as there did not seem to be corresponding increase in power.

Right now I have standard setting and there are some areas around 4000 rpm where the bike is a bit hesitant if I close the throttle and then open again. I have taken the bike to Runner in Pretoria for suspension set-up and he promised to play with it a bit and see what he can do. Will let you know what is the result, however I was quite happy as it was already.   

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 07:22:58 pm »
I would ask Runner if he has access to a Dyno - think this would be the definitive way to dial it in. Unfortunately nothing close to me.
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Offline Xpat

Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 09:21:24 am »
Hey. Have got my TE630 tuned on dyno and here are the results:

They have played with JD Tuner to smooth-en the power curve (you can see dyno chart - before and after - at the end of this post). My bike has the following performance mods:
Power up kit
Arrows with new ECU
Drilled airbox with EHS filter
JD Tuner.
43 rear sprocket (well that is not for performance, but that was the only steel sprocket I found to replace the aluminium POS).
The bike was pulling very strongly before the dyno, however there was big dip in power/torque at about 3000 rpm and quite a bit of hesitation when I went quickly off and on throttle. This made control of the bike a bit tricky.

I have to say that have done very good job and the bikes pulls very strongly and smoothly throughout the whole rev range. The throttle hesitation and dip in the torque are completely gone. I have checked today the settings they put on the JD Tuner and I was quite surprised:
Green - 2
Yellow - 6
Red - 1
green/blue - 2.5
Yellow/blue - 1.5
red/blue - 1.5
I'm quite surprised that in majority of settings they went actually down compared to standard JD settings set-up. And I'm very surprised that with red at absolute minimum, the bike still pulls very well at high revs.

Based on my seat of pants dyno, I was quite disappointed to see the actual numbers (see chart below). Maximum power at the rear wheel 47 HP seems really low. However I have to qualify that a bit:
The bike was dyno-ed in Pretoria (SA) which is at about 1500m above the see. The guys recon that at the see level it should have about 10-12% more HP. So let's say 52hp at the rear wheel.
The bike has knobbly tyres. My understanding is that this affects the numbers and may bring 1-2 more HP. So the most optimistic scenario is 54hp at the rear wheel at the see level.
I did hope for more, considering I have basically all the TE630 performance upgrades known to mankind - but at the end of the day it is not the numbers I ride, and the bike feels really strong and smooth now.

Dyno chart:

Offline alanB

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 09:48:20 am »
Great info on the dyno run.  Thanks for posting that  :ricky:.

I wouldnt get too hung up about what number you achieve on a dyno.  Too many people obsess about that needlessly IMO.  At end of the day all that matters is how the bike feels to you when you ride it.  Plus dyno calibration means you can basically get any number you want by tweaking the settings.

And anyway you dont win a race by showing your dyno chart to your competitor, you have to out ride them on a track.  And usually then the better rider wins regardless.

What is useful is that they sorted out some lumps and bumps in the curve using the JD Tuner.   :thumleft:

What's your fuel consumption like now?  I saw some guys on Cafe Husky report quite high fuel consumption once they installed the JD Tuner.
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 10:46:09 am »
Fuel consumption will inevitably go up as essentially these tuners can only add extra fuel ... and this is what they do... how much depends on the settings and the right hand  :mwink:
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Offline Xpat

Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 05:08:51 pm »
Alan, don't know about consumption yet. As you know I have Safari tank and I haven't fill it up yet - so that it is not too heavy offroad. With April and public holiday's coming I see nice ride in Lesotho approaching, so will know then.

The bike pulls way stronger now from low revs - I believe that after fixing the dip of torque at 3000rpm it is now stronger low down than your 610 - but it has been quite a while since I rode it so I may be just delusional. It also pulls strongly up to 7000.

I'm quite curious about the consumption myself and while it would be logical that it will go up given the higher performance I'm not as sure as BD. The reason is that most of the settings on JD Tuner (higher setting is richer mix as far as I understand) are less than standard setting 3, which I believe mimics the standard map (for example high revs  red setting is actually at 1 - the most lean possible). So this may indicate actually lower consumption. However this all may be offset by yellow (middle revs) being at 6 as this is where the bike will run most of the time.

Well enough speculation. Will ride it and report back once I know more.

Offline M3X3Z3

Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2012, 08:58:11 pm »
Hey, Xpat, let' s put your dynochart in some perspective here.

 With reference to the dyno chart, those are nice curves you got there ! :ricky:

 Torque curve : +85% of max torque is avaialbe from 2500RPM thru to 6500RPM.
 Power curve: nice and linear and the drop off from 6500 to 8500 is very gradual -maybe the EHS is running out of flow there.

 The smooth curves indicate that the engine is well designed and functioning well. :thumleft:

 With reference to the final 54 rear wheel HP, we need to take drive train loss into account to get to Husqvarna quoted fly wheel / crankshaft hp.
 Internet forum opinion is that drive train loss is between 10% and 15%

 Final Crankshaft HP then works out to 61HP assuming a 12% drivetrain loss or 60HP assuming a 10% loss.
 This compares favourably to the Official quoted figure of 57HP for the 630. Nice.

 The real bonus here is the Torque.
 Dyno Torque is 57NM + 10 % loss for altitude + 10% loss for drive train loss and 2 NM for the Knobly factor.
 70NM Crankshaft torque.
 Not shabby at all, my china.

 Considering that the all conquering and Iconic 650cc Honda XR650R produced 62HP and 64NM (altitude and drive train etc adjusted ) at the crank in uncorked and well tuned form on the dyno, I would say that your little 600cc TE is quite sharp at 60HP and 70NM.
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Offline alanB

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 01:25:11 pm »
Ja this JD Tuner thing is starting to look quite tempting.

But I'm suffering from "buyer fatigue" after shelling out for the Safari tank - so not quite yet. 

I also would like to see some honest figures on expected fuel consumption as well.  No point in turning the bike into a rocket if you then need a Safari tank for adequate range - with all its handling drawbacks (which I might be over stressing, need some more time on the bike to make up my mind).

But to inject some practicality into the discussion.  My bike actually goes well enough for me now.  A bit more power at the top end of the rev range would be nice, but not essential.  I can do everything I want to with the bike as is.
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Offline M3X3Z3

Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 04:14:00 pm »
The JD Tuner essentially takes the current IBeat fueling values and then adds or subtracts from them depending on the values that you select on your Tuner.

This allows for optimising performance and or fuel economy.
The Tuner has 8 positions.
Position 3 is a null postion, .i.e. it neither adds or subtracts fuel from your current iBeat setting.
Going from position 3 to 8 in .5 increments, you add fuel.
Going from position 3 to 1 in .5 decrements, you subtract fuel.

The Tuner allows you to set the EFI as you would a carburetor - very simple.
You can tune;
Idle circuit.
1St 1/4 throttle
Middle 1/2 throttle.
Last 1/4 throtle.
Accelerator Pump Jet


So If you want a nice ride, add fuel.
If you want to ride standard, set all settings on the tuner to position 3
f you want to go long distance without the Safari, then set some of the settings to say 2.5 or 2.

The JD Tuners are coded and designed for specific bikes.
The idea being is that you cannot damage the bike by running too rich or too lean based upon your tuner settings.

The tuner is a simple, credit card sized, waterproof appliance that is attached to the EFI.
No Laptop required.
Mine is tied to my bar clamp, so I can tune on the ride.

http://www.jdjetting.com/
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 07:26:21 pm »
Hmm iinteresting - I thought these tuners were like the Techlusion Dobek ones could only add fuel?
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Offline dirtWarp

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 09:48:06 pm »
Hey, Xpat, let' s put your dynochart in some perspective here.

 With reference to the dyno chart, those are nice curves you got there ! :ricky:

 Torque curve : +85% of max torque is avaialbe from 2500RPM thru to 6500RPM.
 Power curve: nice and linear and the drop off from 6500 to 8500 is very gradual -maybe the EHS is running out of flow there.

 The smooth curves indicate that the engine is well designed and functioning well. :thumleft:

 With reference to the final 54 rear wheel HP, we need to take drive train loss into account to get to Husqvarna quoted fly wheel / crankshaft hp.
 Internet forum opinion is that drive train loss is between 10% and 15%

 Final Crankshaft HP then works out to 61HP assuming a 12% drivetrain loss or 60HP assuming a 10% loss.
 This compares favourably to the Official quoted figure of 57HP for the 630. Nice.

 The real bonus here is the Torque.
 Dyno Torque is 57NM + 10 % loss for altitude + 10% loss for drive train loss and 2 NM for the Knobly factor.
 70NM Crankshaft torque.
 Not shabby at all, my china.

 Considering that the all conquering and Iconic 650cc Honda XR650R produced 62HP and 64NM (altitude and drive train etc adjusted ) at the crank in uncorked and well tuned form on the dyno, I would say that your little 600cc TE is quite sharp at 60HP and 70NM.
Like Alan said, these figures are all relative to the dyno used. aka pretty useless (except when comparing before and after figures.)

I Lol'd at the 62HP XR650R. My Husaberg 550 will probably make 75hp on that same dyno
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 09:50:15 pm by dirtWarp »
 

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2012, 11:18:16 am »
I think you guys have me sold; I have always been a bit disappointed in the slow throttle response of my 610. 
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2012, 11:35:21 am »
Order placed  :biggrin:
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2012, 02:37:08 pm »
You will not be sorry  :3some:
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2012, 04:26:54 pm »
You will not be sorry  :3some:

What are your settings for the 610 on the JD Tuner BiG DoM?
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: JD Tuner and other delights
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2012, 08:00:41 pm »
I will check for you = essentially I scored a Power Surge X6 setup for the 510 and JD told me it was almost exactly the same setting I needed for the setup on my 610. I have not played with it since fitting as was pretty happy but will try and dial it in further in the near future - or of course see if I can get a reasonable dyno run.
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