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Author Topic: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao  (Read 4845 times)

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Offline DeeCeeBee

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2012, 11:41:45 am »
 :imaposer:

Couldnt have said it better myself! Let the masses vote with their feet chaps. For my money, that would mean the nearest Honda dealer for a shiny new XR650 with oodles of farkles and still have change from 90k.

I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:
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Offline the_wes

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2012, 11:44:28 am »
Honda XR650L R50.000
BMW 650 Serato R85/90.00.
Am I missing something other than that the XR is a real dual sport bike?

Not the same poser value as the BMW.  :peepwall:

Most of us cannot afford the BMW price tag / Service costs / parts costs etc, but its got the poser value. If I had the money, I would buy the BMW, and convert / upgrade it until it can ride offroad like an XR!  :ricky:

Nothing looks more the part than a full touratech fitted BMW. But you will have to win the LOTTO. Probably twice!  :thumleft:

Naah - IMHO if you are going to spend that sort of money for a mid size dually then you might as well put in a few more sheckles and get the KTM 690 Oryx - klaar. :3some:
(and this coming from a Beemerphile)

I suppose you will still need to win the LOTTO twice for that one as well?

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Offline Plaashaas

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2012, 11:47:09 am »
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

A polished turd is still a turd ::)

Point made an accepted (turd a bit harsh):

Some okes like comfy 70/30 bikes with range of 300km plus -- so they got it right !

is it heavy yes !!! all bikes are farking heavy hell the 660 tenere weighs more than a 800GS and develops less KW than a Dakar so there are very very few light DP options......the only reasonably powerfull bike that comes close to that and is still light is the 690 but that is a 99/1 & balls to the wall bike and not really an Adventure bike

so cant compare the two

BM has 650s, 800, 1200GS&A and therfore nice range choices for most ----- they are not "a ready to race brand" and therfore the bike WILL mostly satisfy the need of the purchaser



« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 11:48:05 am by Plaashaas »
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2012, 11:51:48 am »
:imaposer:

Couldnt have said it better myself! Let the masses vote with their feet chaps. For my money, that would mean the nearest Honda dealer for a shiny new XR650 with oodles of farkles and still have change from 90k.

I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:

My GS is now on 75 000kms and still doesn't use a drop of oil between services even though I've put it through some serious abuse. I can still ride it at 150-160 all day long. How many other single cylinder owners can say that?

If I only had 50k to spend I'd rather buy another 640 anyway  ;)
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Offline DeeCeeBee

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2012, 11:56:04 am »
:imaposer:

Couldnt have said it better myself! Let the masses vote with their feet chaps. For my money, that would mean the nearest Honda dealer for a shiny new XR650 with oodles of farkles and still have change from 90k.

I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:

My GS is now on 75 000kms and still doesn't use a drop of oil between services even though I've put it through some serious abuse. I can still ride it at 150-160 all day long. How many other single cylinder owners can say that?

I wasnt talking about the reliability at all , all i was trying to say is that for the money i would go for something better suited to the adventure lifestyle as opposed to paying more for a bike with "poser: value as mentioned above.
No offense intended, just trying to add to the debate.

If I only had 50k to spend I'd rather buy another 640 anyway  ;)
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Offline the_wes

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2012, 11:57:11 am »
I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:

There's much more to the Sertao / Dakar than just poser value. Comparing the XR650L to the Sertao - they are 2 different bikes - both are great in their own way. Both are bulletproof - but the Honda is going to be cheaper to buy and run, and handle better in tight stuff, where the Sertao will beat it on fuel economy, and run more comfortable over distance with a better seat and smoother engine.
 

Offline DeeCeeBee

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2012, 11:57:49 am »
ps:  A 640 wouls also be most welcome to sleep in my garage at night! :ricky:
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Offline White Rhino

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2012, 12:00:29 pm »
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

A polished turd is still a turd ::)

Point made an accepted (turd a bit harsh):

Some okes like comfy 70/30 bikes with range of 300km plus -- so they got it right !

is it heavy yes !!! all bikes are farking heavy hell the 660 tenere weighs more than a 800GS and develops less KW than a Dakar so there are very very few light DP options......the only reasonably powerfull bike that comes close to that and is still light is the 690 but that is a 99/1 & balls to the wall bike and not really an Adventure bike

so cant compare the two

BM has 650s, 800, 1200GS&A and therfore nice range choices for most ----- they are not "a ready to race brand" and therfore the bike WILL mostly satisfy the need of the purchaser


Agree :thumleft: , often its good enough to evaluate based on primary needs rather than comparing feature for feature against another brand.

If you compare your wife's features against other woman, you would also find shortfalls  and be enticed to trade her in. And most likely get dumped or slapped if you were as vocal  :ricky:
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2012, 12:01:02 pm »
No offence taken. Just saying it isn't all poser. The bike has its good points too  :deal:

:imaposer:

Couldnt have said it better myself! Let the masses vote with their feet chaps. For my money, that would mean the nearest Honda dealer for a shiny new XR650 with oodles of farkles and still have change from 90k.

I take the comments about the poser value of a bmw on board, but are we riding here for fun and enjoyment or are we posing??  :mwink:

My GS is now on 75 000kms and still doesn't use a drop of oil between services even though I've put it through some serious abuse. I can still ride it at 150-160 all day long. How many other single cylinder owners can say that?

I wasnt talking about the reliability at all , all i was trying to say is that for the money i would go for something better suited to the adventure lifestyle as opposed to paying more for a bike with "poser: value as mentioned above.
No offense intended, just trying to add to the debate.

If I only had 50k to spend I'd rather buy another 640 anyway  ;)
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Offline the_wes

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2012, 12:03:01 pm »

If you compare your wife's features against other woman, you would also find shortfalls  and be enticed to trade her in. And most likely get dumped or slapped if you were as vocal  :ricky:


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Offline Plaashaas

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2012, 12:09:28 pm »
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

A polished turd is still a turd ::)

Point made an accepted (turd a bit harsh):

Some okes like comfy 70/30 bikes with range of 300km plus -- so they got it right !

is it heavy yes !!! all bikes are farking heavy hell the 660 tenere weighs more than a 800GS and develops less KW than a Dakar so there are very very few light DP options......the only reasonably powerfull bike that comes close to that and is still light is the 690 but that is a 99/1 & balls to the wall bike and not really an Adventure bike

so cant compare the two

BM has 650s, 800, 1200GS&A and therfore nice range choices for most ----- they are not "a ready to race brand" and therfore the bike WILL mostly satisfy the need of the purchaser


Agree :thumleft: , often its good enough to evaluate based on primary needs rather than comparing feature for feature against another brand.

If you compare your wife's features against other woman, you would also find shortfalls  and be enticed to trade her in. And most likely get dumped or slapped if you were as vocal  :ricky:



 :thumleft:

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Offline alanB

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2012, 12:39:36 pm »
Quote
This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

I agree.  

BMW have the resources to supply much better bikes than this in this market segment.  Serving more of the same from 20 years ago is a cop out IMO and a bit of an insult to their very loyal customer base IMO.

They seem to be relying on superficial stuff like looks, paint and revised plastics to sell their bikes lately - which is a cop out, they could do better - we all know that.

The Dakar was a good bike (admittedly adapted from an Aprillia Pegaso who should deserve some credit) when it was first launched.  But that was a long time ago.  Is there really nothing more that can be done to the thing other than change the superficials?

To me its as if BMW are confused and don't know what to do in this segment so have just have decided to do nothing, because their bikes are selling!  That "if it aint broke dont fix it" approach is all very well but that's what lead to Harley Davidson progressively becoming less capable bikes (at one stage they were used competitively as racing bikes just look at On Any Sunday for eg) until the only real purpose of a Harley is to pose.  BMW owe their customers more than that IMO.

Maybe they were shocked by the lack of success of the X range and now have over compensated at managerial levels by retreating into the past?  But its still a cop out!  What CEO of any dynamic company would be happy with that strategy?
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Offline bonova

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2012, 12:47:56 pm »
Wait wait I know .....if u dont like it ......


dont buy it

They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.


with this i agree completely - they can def improve on a number of issues that the old one had.  :thumleft:
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2012, 01:01:26 pm »
Quote
This is not really about buy or don't buy but about BMW having performed rather poor and missed the opportunity to sort out flaws before relaunching hte Dakar.
They decided to rather mask the flaws with some black paint, new clocks and a squinting headlight. A missed opportunity IMHO.

I agree.  

BMW have the resources to supply much better bikes than this in this market segment.  Serving more of the same from 20 years ago is a cop out IMO and a bit of an insult to their very loyal customer base IMO.

They seem to be relying on superficial stuff like looks, paint and revised plastics to sell their bikes lately - which is a cop out, they could do better - we all know that.

The Dakar was a good bike (admittedly adapted from an Aprillia Pegaso who should deserve some credit) when it was first launched.  But that was a long time ago.  Is there really nothing more that can be done to the thing other than change the superficials?

To me its as if BMW are confused and don't know what to do in this segment so have just have decided to do nothing, because their bikes are selling!  That "if it aint broke dont fix it" approach is all very well but that's what lead to Harley Davidson progressively becoming less capable bikes (at one stage they were used competitively as racing bikes just look at On Any Sunday for eg) until the only real purpose of a Harley is to pose.  BMW owe their customers more than that IMO.

Maybe they were shocked by the lack of success of the X range and now have over compensated at managerial levels by retreating into the past?  But its still a cop out!  What CEO of any dynamic company would be happy with that strategy?


How is it a cop out from BMW if they remain the highest selling brand in the DS market? If I were their CEO I'd fire anyone that tries to change that  :deal:
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Offline Karel Kat

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2012, 01:05:21 pm »
But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.



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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2012, 01:08:38 pm »
But it's only this and the Tenere that is available in the real D/S long distance travel market.



Eish, Michnus, what is it with you and VW Golfs and KLR's? Don't you like poor Frugal people?  ;)

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Offline alanB

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #96 on: January 25, 2012, 01:29:27 pm »
Quote
How is it a cop out from BMW if they remain the highest selling brand in the DS market? If I were their CEO I'd fire anyone that tries to change that 

Well if you are happy to buy a bike simply because BMW sell a lot of them then its all perfect  :thumleft:

If however you expect a company like BMW to do what they can to give you the best bikes they can in each sector, well thats a different story. 

If I was their CEO I would be looking for someone to fire over this because it shows extreme lack of leadership and vision and ability to lead the market, especially because they had a massive lead in this sector a long time ago - they invented the GS sector - which was brilliant.  But sitting around on you laurels is a sure way to have a rude awakening in the future, competitors don't sit still just because you are.  The lead that had is no more, many other manufactures are now active in this segment with arguably better offerings.

Launching the same bike as your  "new model" and relying simply on your current market leader position, wouldn't cut it in my book.
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #97 on: January 25, 2012, 02:03:55 pm »
Love it or hate it, the BMW 650 GS single cylinder was bullet proof, the weapon of choice for Trans Africa trips, very economical, and tough. Yes, it a few issues, but only one with the potential to leave you stranded, the water pump gears.
Yes, it is relatively heavy, but how many actually use it in such a way that weight is an issue? The popularity of this bike before it was discontinued says a lot about how good they are. There is only one other real option for Trans Africa trips, the Yamaha Tenere Z, and that is mainly because of it's bigger fuel tank.
This issue of the supposed 14L tank, the specs say 14L standing, but I'm assuming that excludes the 3L reserve, making it 17L, the same as the previous models....but lets wait and see, it is being relaunched later in February.

 ;D :D I think I sense Adventurer actually feeling a bit
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Offline Kaboef

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #98 on: January 25, 2012, 02:16:34 pm »
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.



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Offline the_wes

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Re: Sooo, the Dakar is back, renamed, revamped...now the Sertao
« Reply #99 on: January 25, 2012, 02:21:37 pm »
We wouldnt have had this discussion if BMW beefed up the front forks, made the tank 22liters, and got rid of that farking ridiculous headlight.

The Dakkie is a proven design in it's market segment, but you HAVE to innovate, even if you re-launch an old model.

Then you can charge R90k for it and no-one will complain.

Slapping new plastics on is nice, but for us that know a thing or two about bikes, it's not enough.

But it will be a hit with first-time buyers because of price, heritage and after-sales service.





You are right - we'd be having a very different discussion. Everybody would be lambasting BMW for putting a R90k price tag on a single  :deal:

Everyone has a gripe - except those that actually own or have owned a Dakar  :imaposer:
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 02:22:10 pm by the_wes »