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Offline Brandt

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #100 on: August 21, 2012, 10:04:59 am »
OK - I decided to ignore the useless range indicator, decide on what I thought was a conservative number of 450km per tank when I would next fuel up, as that would give me around 15km/liter assuming I manage to use 30liters in the tank.

So then - with the range indicator at 3km remaining, the trip odomoter on 426km, the boxer spluttered and died on me. Fortunately I only had to push the beast about 200m to the next fuel station.

Filled up and only squeezed in 28.6liters.   >:(

This is really frustrating. Fuel consumption is probably ok at just below 15km/liter as all of it was stop/start in town. But not being be able to fully utilise the 33liters in the tank really irritates me - something I think the Djirmans should have been able to better engineer on this bike.

On the bright side at least it seems the range indicator is working   :patch:


Something is up with your tank. I get easy 34 L in when close to empty..
 

Offline Alan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #101 on: August 21, 2012, 03:19:37 pm »
Brandt,
mine does EXACTLY the same thing dude.. My bike splutters and dies.. (I carry a 2 litre bottle for this reason). if I open the tank and jerk the bike around that has now spluttered to a halt, I can hear A LOT of fuel splosh around in there. I put in the 2 Liters, fire it up straight away, and head straight to the nearest petrol station. I will then put in 29.6 liters, and it will be brimmed!!! Its done this since I got it a few months ago.. Never got more than 30 Liters in ever.

Kak engineering IMHO.. and the fact no one else seems to know why also pisses me off..

Alan
 

Offline Duke916

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #102 on: August 21, 2012, 06:36:29 pm »
It might help if you could open the pump flange and have a look at the siphon tube from the tank to the pump . Sounds like its a tad high  ??? Getting it lower or extended might help ( just guessing here )
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Offline Alan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #103 on: August 21, 2012, 07:20:59 pm »
 :thumleft: Thanks Duke,

On leave for 3 weeks soon, going to be riding round on my Cafe Racer, and will hopefully get the GS in for Shane to take a look and see whats up.. I've never got in to this things at that level yet, as I need to use it daily for my commuting, but when on leave, I'll have a chance to see whats what.

Alan
 

Offline oo7

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #104 on: September 26, 2012, 09:24:26 am »
Righto

Took my GSA in for its 31315km service @ @tlantic today.

I explained to Anton (is he the new Shane?) the fuel capacity / range issue as previously discussed above, i.e.  my issue of running out of fuel with the range indicator normally indicating anything between 0-30km left. And then when I fill up, I usually only manage to squeeze anything between 26-29liters in the 33liter tank.

According to Anton, the tank has only one fuel pump on the left hand side with a "transfer pump" in the right hand side, which is responsible for getting the fuel from the right to the left side. This transfer then does not pick up all the fuel on the right hand side.

He then explained me his simple solution to this 'problem':

Lock your handlebars in a right turn position, and then 'drop' the bike on its left side, TILTING OVER AS FAR AS YOU CAN - and then he told me to listen to the beautiful sound of fuel rushing from the right hand side of the tank to the left hand side.

Now I am not sure if I want to cry or laugh, beacuse if this is going to sort out the case of the missing 4 or 5 liters, I am going to be ecstatic with joy, as I'm getting back that extra 60-80km of range. But then I also have to ask myself why, on a >R150k motorcylcle, I have to employ agricultural methods like this to utilise the bike's potential in full? I mean, imagine a KLR rider coming past at top speed and having to witness the whole commotion while he is passing during those couple of agonising minutes that this fuel transfer operation takes to complete? I mean, what will they think of me??  

 :biggrin:

I arrived this morning with 33km left on the piece of shit range indicator so will report back when I have the bike back to see if this actually sorted the issue.

Anyhow - on a different note - I just returned from the bash doing 2500km in 4 days. Not a squeek out of the bike and a wonderful, comfortable ride. If this is not the world's most complete, comfortable and reliable long distance gravel tourer, then that bike still has to be designed.  Finish & klaar!   :ricky:
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 09:39:47 am by oo7 »
 

Offline Alan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #105 on: September 27, 2012, 04:13:24 pm »
oo7, I hear you, I got the same dof comment..  :patch:

So, my update so far. I stripped my moer 2 weeks ago and dismantled the bike, and pulled the tank off myself. All this without the new Fuel Strip Sensor that my missus brought back for me. I opened the filler section, and pulled the entire contraption out the tank. Amazing how a hundred thousand rand motorcycle can 'hang a flimsey" piece of plastic off a ring off the fuel feed neck, and expect it to be accurate for measuring how much fuel's in the tank!  :dousing: Farking Bavarian technicians..

Anyway, In my attempts to understand whats what, and disconnecting all the plugs and fuel feeds and hoses, and stripping out the sensor and putting it all back together again, I seems to have done it correctly, or better than it was done by previous owners and mechanics, as last week, My fuel level hit reserve, and counted down to ----, at which point, I "usually" have around 80 km's still to use. So I pulled in to the Autobank, drew cash, and promptly tried to start the bike to get to the petrol station next door, and it wouldn't start.. it had run out! And, I had left my top box at home with the petrol in the Box as I needed to load some stuff on the back of the bike.. So I pushed it round the corner and put in a few litres. So it seems my fuel level meter is a lot more accurate, finally.

The last part of this story revolves around whats fucked.. Can you believe, it's calles a SUCKING JET PUMP!! Who the F^%# would call a Pump that??? Bavarian techies again!
This is the "pump" situated in the right hand lobe of the tank, which transfers the "reserve" 4 litres of fuel from the right hand side to the left had side, which the fuelpump and meter then reads as 'reserve", and which gives those of you that additional 100 to 150 km's of extra distance. My bike doesn't feed across these 4 litres. So the SUCKING JET PUMP is faulty, blocked or fucked in my bike, and why I can never put in more than 29 Litres in my tank.  I expect it's either stuffed, impellors no longer working, or it's blocked, or the pipe going from the right to the left hand lobe in the tank isn't "across" the bridge correctly, so it doesn't feed across the 4 litlres.

This Saturday I'm opening the right hand Lobe and seeing whats what in there.. Hopefully I'll find a fuckup and fix the missing 4 litres on this GSA, then I'm pleased to say, it's all 100% Ace..  :thumleft:

Feedback, possibly Pics on this matter soon. But I MUST assume this is the same issues that affects other GSA riders. Doesn't make any other sense when guys can get 630 Km's on a "full tank" and my best distance was only 510 km's. And then, I can only put 29.5 litres in the tank. Where's MY 33 Litres?? So we shall see.

Alan
 

Offline Goose

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #106 on: September 27, 2012, 04:22:31 pm »
Good on you Alan!!  Good luck mate and keep us posted!
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Offline oo7

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #107 on: September 27, 2012, 06:00:40 pm »
Feedback, possibly Pics on this matter soon. But I MUST assume this is the same issues that affects other GSA riders. Doesn't make any other sense when guys can get 630 Km's on a "full tank" and my best distance was only 510 km's. And then, I can only put 29.5 litres in the tank. Where's MY 33 Litres?? So we shall see.

Alan

I had a nice chuckle - thanks Alan!

Please keep me posted, because Atlantic's "agricultural" solution did not work at all. I think you may just be onto something here - possibly a faulty / bad design on "das transfer-fooking-jetpump-thingy"?

« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 07:27:45 am by oo7 »
 

Offline Brakenjan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #108 on: September 27, 2012, 08:44:21 pm »
Good on you Alan!!  Good luck mate and keep us posted!

+1  :thumleft:
 

Offline Alan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #109 on: September 29, 2012, 02:12:01 pm »
Howzit,

firstly, BMW techies are FOR REAL, a bunch of chops.. I have NO IDEA how, or why they would seem to entertain what goes on inside this Fuel Tank and how it works.. It's really quite impressively stupid. My opinion.

I've borrowed an image I found, which show's what's going on close enough..


This blue thing, is the Sucking Jet Pump. On my bike a 2007 model, it hangs from the bottom of this white cover via a piece of stiff wire, so it is as down the right hand lobe of the tank as can be.. There are no impellors in it, it has some type of cone design that works in conjunction with a pressurized return fuel feed into this side of tank. You can see the end of that brown fuel hose, that plugs into the bottom of the white cover, and a fuel hose into the top of it. That Fuel hose, comes from I believe, the Fuel Distributor Pressure Regulator, see diagram below from MAXBMWMOTORCYCLES Technical section.



So, BASICALLY, fuel is returned to the tank under pressure, which, via that amazingly stupid SUCKING Pump, then picks up any fuel in the lower, right hand lobe of the tank, and pushes it around the tank to the left hand side where the fuel pump is, via a fat, plastic pipe, which has to sit in a very specific way, and in some recess inside the tank.. It took me about half an hour just to get that pipe back in and correctly seated. It's also about 1.2 meters in length, and goes all the way around the Adventure tank, and ends up in the front, left hand corner of the tank..  :eek7:

When I had this right hand cover off, I started my bike, and I expect there's supposed to be a gentle supply of fuel coming out this Hose from the Distribution Regulator, and there's nothing on my bike.. So there's nothing "driving" the sucking pump to pick up the last 3 to 4 litre's in the right hand side, and transfer around to the left hand side. Am awaiting more clarity on this. Might need to go in somewhere, but waiting to hear back from SHane H.

I also at the same time, fitted the new Fuel Sensor strip I got in the UK, and stuck my hand in the left hand slobe and correctly positioned the bottom of the fuel strip in a small recess inside the tank.. Amazingly simple, stupid design really. Apparently, the poor fuels also screw up the bottom half of these strips, and they're pretty hefty replacements, at close to 2 Grand a strip!!! Anyway, mine's in, and all connected.. Once I had re-assembled the covers and the bike back together again, I went to the Garage and BRIMMED the tank.. Guage says I have 587 Km Capacity or distance, It should be well over that, but I believe the Strip\Computer needs to be calibrated when the strip is replaced.. So also waiting to hear more on this..

But honestly, it's an insane design, no idea why they didn't fit two electric pumps in each lobe, and this is definitely an optional "fix" if I can't get this sucking up to work. I need to find out why there's no return fuel going back into the tank, under pressure.. Apparently, according to guys in the USA,  ADVRider etc, this regulator has a controller which blows.. So hope to get more info when I hear back from Shane.. Lank nervous to go back to Johnny at Atlantic and to try explain this to them, but surely they should know this stuff???  :patch:

Cheers

Alan
 

Offline detour

Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #110 on: September 29, 2012, 02:56:09 pm »
Either there is something wrong with these GSAs or BMW has upgraded the fuel system. I've done more than 600km on a tank in Namibia once, have never run out under 500km and have managed to put in excess of 33L on several occasions. Maybe you should sometimes lean the bike whilst cornering..  :peepwall:
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Offline Alan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #111 on: September 29, 2012, 03:10:28 pm »
 ::)
Each year they upgrade the innards of these tanks and the fuel metering system. Mine's a 2007, and that model is the most problematic. You must be on a newer model, no problems with the fuel tanks, but elsewhere.

But, yeah, my contribution to the WD's Forum will hopefully be more acceptable than yours, and I'll try lean next time, promise.  :patch:
 

Offline detour

Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2012, 03:48:37 pm »
Lol. Just pulling your leg.

I would be disappointed too if I didn't get 500 on a tank as that was one of the key features that made me buy this bike. Hope you get it sorted out as it generally is a great bike to ride.
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Offline Alan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2012, 05:00:56 pm »
After chatting to Shane, "he who know's all" :biggrin: I then re-checked that fuel return, which has a built in stop valve, and after pressing that, I got fuel flow at pressure.. So, I'm going to run out one or two tanks to help calibrate the strip meter, as well as see if that right hand sucking pump is now working properly. I'm hoping it was incorrectly fitted in the right hand lobe, or there was a little dirt which I have blown out preventing it from picking up the juice. Time will tell..

I do however like Shane's fix. We simply tap into the bottom of each lobe, and fit the pump via a balancing pipe. Then it will drain the tank correctly.  :laughing4:

F|eedback in a few weeks time.

Alan
 

Offline alwyn_gs

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #114 on: October 04, 2012, 08:24:21 am »
It looks like the "newer" models were sorted on the fuel tank issues...

Thanks Alan for the technical feedback.  :thumleft:

I do a 35km to work every second day through the midde-midde stad van Pretoria, with a 100kg man on the back. With lots of off roading over weekends and avarages 550 to 580 km on the tank. The second last tank was 609.4 km, filling up with 34.52 litres . . .  :mwink:
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Offline oo7

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #115 on: October 04, 2012, 09:34:53 am »
It looks like the "newer" models were sorted on the fuel tank issues...

Thanks Alan for the technical feedback.  :thumleft:

I do a 35km to work every second day through the midde-midde stad van Pretoria, with a 100kg man on the back. With lots of off roading over weekends and avarages 550 to 580 km on the tank. The second last tank was 609.4 km, filling up with 34.52 litres . . .  :mwink:

Nice of you to pillion your friend   :biggrin:

 

Offline Alan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #116 on: October 04, 2012, 10:20:37 am »
Thanks Alwyn, appreciated.

I'm doing 54 Km's to work and back each day, as I use my GSA as daily commuter. I've just got to close to 250 km's since the fill up, and my gauge is still much higher than it usually was.. So already, I'm hoping this replacement fuel strip is working better. it's also telling me my total anticipated distance is approx 630 km's.. That to is much better than it was.. So I'll have to run this down to the dashes to see what the real km distance is on the Odfo, and that'll prove if the DIY I did in the tank ertc has worked.

cheers

Alan
 

Offline Alan

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #117 on: October 11, 2012, 02:36:51 pm »
More feedback.
Good news, the new Strip Sensor I put in is deadly accurate, tow ithin 2 km's of the end of range..
Bad news, it ran out at 498 Km's. So for sure, the right hand lobe isn't pushing across fuel, or isn't working how it should be. have only put in a few litres to get me to Saturday, where I intend going back in the right hand side to check if something else is causing the problem. I'm also considering dropping in an electric pump in the right hand lobe.. My consumption's terrible.. 5.8 Liter's /100 Km's.. Just doesn't make sense.

Back to the drawing board.

Alan
 

Offline Brandt

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #118 on: October 11, 2012, 02:39:02 pm »
More feedback.
Good news, the new Strip Sensor I put in is deadly accurate, tow ithin 2 km's of the end of range..
Bad news, it ran out at 498 Km's. So for sure, the right hand lobe isn't pushing across fuel, or isn't working how it should be. have only put in a few litres to get me to Saturday, where I intend going back in the right hand side to check if something else is causing the problem. I'm also considering dropping in an electric pump in the right hand lobe.. My consumption's terrible.. 5.8 Liter's /100 Km's.. Just doesn't make sense.

Back to the drawing board.

Alan
That sounds almost normal, depending how you ride. In town I get about 5.8 and open road 6.1.
 

Offline oo7

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Re: GSA fuel capacity
« Reply #119 on: October 11, 2012, 02:41:41 pm »
More feedback.
Good news, the new Strip Sensor I put in is deadly accurate, tow ithin 2 km's of the end of range..
Bad news, it ran out at 498 Km's. So for sure, the right hand lobe isn't pushing across fuel, or isn't working how it should be. have only put in a few litres to get me to Saturday, where I intend going back in the right hand side to check if something else is causing the problem. I'm also considering dropping in an electric pump in the right hand lobe.. My consumption's terrible.. 5.8 Liter's /100 Km's.. Just doesn't make sense.

Back to the drawing board.

Alan

Approx 17,2km/l - so certainly towards the upper end of what I usually get. I think that is in fact good?

And I have yet to see the 500km mark without having to resort to the agricultural method of tipping the bike over onto its left   :dousing: