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Author Topic: Stop writing cr@p all over Buff's page thread. What bike is good for the job..  (Read 3969 times)

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Offline Rough Rider

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Old people will tell you to go 2T cause in the old days try didn't maintain their 4ts properly and they blew up.
Fact is that 4t is much nicer to ride. You'd see, especially down here in CPT with the offroad dudes they go through these phases, then it's YZ250WR is the most amazing machine ever, then 2 years later they are all on KTMs, if buying new go 4t, if 2nd hand and you don't know the bike then 2t.
Have both and prefer the 4t

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Offline ALLAWYN

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Thanks everyone answering my question, especially Beserker, Dave talking to me on the phone for 2 hours, explaining complicated techniques, and just lekker bike talk, don't make the like that anymore, makes me enthusiastic about WD again if there are dogs like you around :thumleft:

I will let you know what the big decision, and if I decide to do the roof, at the tender age of 52, maybe start a tread like Buff :o
 

Offline tau

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Nothing lasts, climbs and is as easy to ride fast as a WR250 F. If I wasn't so fat I would ride one.
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Offline Rough Rider

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Nothing lasts, climbs and is as easy to ride fast as a WR250 F. If I wasn't so fat I would ride one.

Pity they don't last in the dunes  :deal:
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Offline Beserker

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Nothing lasts....

Nope...the crux is fixing though. 
In my limited experiance, 4t is much, much more expensive.

The main issue with a 2t is the powerband, proper porting and sensible tuning sorts that.

The fact that people take an MX 2T bike, slap on a FMF high rev exhaust does not make the bike crap, merely inappropriate.

For tight, slow work nothing beats the fact that a 2T runs cooler, and can take a lot more clutch abuse than a 4T.

Case in point, David Knight (very few of us, if any, has his experiance) prefers the 450 4T, but for extreme enduro's, still reverts back to 2T
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Offline Dux

A lot of the preference for 2 strokes is that due to improved porting , exhaust design and electronics they have become a lot more usable than in the bad old days so it is now possible to run a 2 stroke at just above idle and it will pull cleanly from there , and of course even though it sounds like it they are not very high revving , a 250 - 2 stroke will go to about 8500rpm .
Now take a 4 stroke and the only way to get more power out of them is by increasing bore size and running a short stroke which inevitably leads to higher rpm , a 250 - 4 stroke will pull 12 500 rpm and an mx model will do up to 13 500 rpm , now compare that to the 2 stroke and it is more than a 50% increase in rpm , that has to show up somewhere and it is in maintenance and wear and tear , so when the 4 strokes are costing 4 to 5 times more to run over a season than the equivalent 2 strokes you know why .
Granted the 4 strokes are nice to ride and in low traction situations you can get away with murder on a 250 - 4 stroke , but the 2 strokes are nippier and feel lighter and even though they demand more throttle control they are still the tool of choice for enduro's , look at the Roof and I think perhaps only about 5% of the field are on 4 strokes .
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Offline Rough Rider

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I have been told that if you really want to learn to ride, buy a 125 2T and learn how to keep it on the pipe in gnarly stuff without killing yourself.

So the point is; a 250 4T is a lot easier to ride than a 125 2T but you learn a lot  more on the 125 and ultimately become a better rider.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 10:07:49 pm by Rough Rider »
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Offline Dux

 :lamer:
I have been told that if you really want to learn to ride, buy a 125 2T and learn how to keep it on the pipe in gnarly stuff without killing yourself.

So the point is; a 250 4T is a lot easier to ride than a 125 2T but you learn a lot  more on the 125 and ultimately become a better rider.

Agreed
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Offline Beserker

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...and of course even though it sounds like it they are not very high revving , a 250 - 2 stroke will go to about 8500rpm .

On the button Dux, not only does the 4T rev higher than the 2T....it moves a lot more hardware (valves etc) around.

This all equates to more stuff subject to wear and tear that needs to be maintained (at a cost), but also more points of failure, i.e stuff that can break, and needs to be fixed at a cost.

Old people will tell you to go 2T cause in the old days try didn't maintain their 4ts properly and they blew up.
Wise words Etienne, can't fault you on your logic  :thumleft:

I beg to differ...

The fact is maintenance is more complex and expensive on a 4T, and people do what the budget allows, or what they can do themselves.

DIY on a 2T is a distinct possibility, even for those that are not mechanics.

Another aspect to consider, a 2T not maintained properly suffers from deteriorating performance, but will most likely carry on….a 4T blow$$$ up.

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Offline Beserker

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I have been told that if you really want to learn to ride, buy a 125 2T and learn how to keep it on the pipe in gnarly stuff without killing yourself.

So the point is; a 250 4T is a lot easier to ride than a 125 2T but you learn a lot  more on the 125 and ultimately become a better rider.

One does not learn technique by flapping along, hanging from the handlebars, surviving.
One learns from being able to repetitively execute a technique correctly, so I would imagine a 250 4T will facilitate a steep learning curve.

Considering that this thread is about starting out, or having an alternative machine for playing around, honing technical  off road skills without thrashing an expensive DS the following.

Fundamental to both (starting out racing/honing skills) is a learning curve, and lets admit (putting ego aside for a second) small is good.

There is such a thing as to much power, to much speed..all you learn from having either of the 2 excesses is how to survive, flapping along, holding onto the handlebars for dear life.

 2T/4T doesn’t really matter – body position is body position, endogrammic instinct  is endrogrammic instinct. The way to learn, is to practice the correct technique over and over by breaking down a track into the various types of obstacles, and sessioning (repeat the obstacle)  till you have it down pat.

You can only follow this regimen if you avoid being beaten up by the bike, and being in control.

A tractable bike (2T/4T) is the way to go, 2T is just a bit cheaper.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 07:01:15 am by Beserker »
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Offline Rough Rider

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Another aspect to consider, a 2T not maintained properly suffers from deteriorating performance, but will most likely carry on….a 4T blow$$$ up.


There are one or two cases where this does not apply, and I speak from experience.

I had a piston break on my KDX, I admit my fault due to running hours on that particular piston. Due to the design of a 2t bike engine all the debris from this piston contaminated the entire engine, complete rebuild was required.

I also had a piston break on my KX250F, not sure why, it only had 50 odd hours on it. Anyway I was able to replace the piston without having to do a complete engine rebuild. There was no bearing or cylinder damage.  
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 12:32:03 pm by Rough Rider »
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Offline Dwerg

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A lot of good info on this thread thanks guys  :deal:

I'll be getting my first full offroad bike this week if all goes well. This thread helped narrow down my options and I rode a couple of bikes this weekend to help solidify my decision. Budget also dictated a bit but I think I have found a very good starter bike. Will post some pics when I get it   :thumleft:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 02:48:05 pm by Dwerg »
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Offline Pom17

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A lot of good info on this thread thanks guys  :deal:

I'll be getting my first full offroad bike this week if all goes well. This thread helped narrow down my options and I rode a couple of bikes this weekend to help solidify my decision. Budget also dictated a bit but I think I have found a very first starter bike. Will post some pics when I get it   :thumleft:

Dwerg jy moet darem teminste vir ons se waarna jy kyk. KTM300 :peepwall:
 

Offline Dwerg

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A lot of good info on this thread thanks guys  :deal:

I'll be getting my first full offroad bike this week if all goes well. This thread helped narrow down my options and I rode a couple of bikes this weekend to help solidify my decision. Budget also dictated a bit but I think I have found a very first starter bike. Will post some pics when I get it   :thumleft:

Dwerg jy moet darem teminste vir ons se waarna jy kyk. KTM300 :peepwall:

Nope. Met my budget was my keuses maar min. Die bikes wat ek sover gery het was 'n KTM300, YZ250, 450X en 'n WR450. Dis nie een van hulle nie  :lol8:

Wil net kyk dat die deal deur gaan dan sal ek post  :deal:
Previous: KTM 690R, 790ADV, 640ADV, 950ADV, 250XCW BMW F650GS Single, F650GS Twin, F800GS, G450X, R50/2 Honda CRF450X, CRF230 x 2, VFR400 NC30, Z50 Mini Trail Yamaha BWS100 x 2, LB80 Chappy
 

Offline Pom17

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A lot of good info on this thread thanks guys  :deal:

I'll be getting my first full offroad bike this week if all goes well. This thread helped narrow down my options and I rode a couple of bikes this weekend to help solidify my decision. Budget also dictated a bit but I think I have found a very first starter bike. Will post some pics when I get it   :thumleft:

Dwerg jy moet darem teminste vir ons se waarna jy kyk. KTM300 :peepwall:

Nope. Met my budget was my keuses maar min. Die bikes wat ek sover gery het was 'n KTM300, YZ250, 450X en 'n WR450. Dis nie een van hulle nie  :lol8:

Wil net kyk dat die deal deur gaan dan sal ek post  :deal:

 :laughing4:

En in die meantime kan jy n goeie vergelyking en report vir ons skryf vir die wie se budget so klein is dat ons nie eers een van daai kon test ride nie :deal:

 

Offline Dwerg

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 :lol8:

Nee wat. Ander ouens was gelukkig gaaf genoeg om my op hulle bikes te laat ry
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Offline Buff

I rode GJ's YZ250 this past weekend at Macassar and all I can say is... W :o W

OMW, that bike farks off  :ricky: He's done the following mods to calm it down a bit but it's still an animal:
Weighted flywheel
Revalved forks
Rekleus clutch... my next bike will have one for sure, it's like riding an MX scooter on steriods.
FMF rear pipe
18inch rear rim
Sprockets changed
Possibly one or two other I can't remember but it's still got the standard gearbox.

I've ridden the KTM 300 as well and the YZ250 is quicker, for sure. But it needs a fairly skilled rider on it to do it justice.

Ok, just felt the need to share that, coz I'm still on a buzz from riding it, 24hrs later  ;D
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 06:44:13 pm by Buff »
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Offline Robski

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I am dying here.

I'm trying to be as patient as possible here, and wait for the right bike without going over my budget. But damn it is hard!
My girlfriend thinks I am mental wanting another bike 3 weeks after I got an out-of-the-box 690R, but she doesn't get it...
I will win however, but its the other things that is adding up, like the trailer I now need, the boots etc.

I will hopefully join you guys soon on a couple training sessions!
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Offline Buff

 :laughing4: They never get it so stop trying to justify it. You work hard for your money and life is short, you deserve to spoil yourself  :thumleft: That's the BS I convince myself with anyway  ;)
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Offline Dwerg

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I am dying here.

I'm trying to be as patient as possible here, and wait for the right bike without going over my budget. But damn it is hard!
My girlfriend thinks I am mental wanting another bike 3 weeks after I got an out-of-the-box 690R, but she doesn't get it...
I will win however, but its the other things that is adding up, like the trailer I now need, the boots etc.

I will hopefully join you guys soon on a couple training sessions!

What are you after?
Previous: KTM 690R, 790ADV, 640ADV, 950ADV, 250XCW BMW F650GS Single, F650GS Twin, F800GS, G450X, R50/2 Honda CRF450X, CRF230 x 2, VFR400 NC30, Z50 Mini Trail Yamaha BWS100 x 2, LB80 Chappy