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Author Topic: 4T or 2T?  (Read 62454 times)

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Offline bonova

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4T or 2T?
« on: May 22, 2013, 06:42:34 pm »
OK so the topic has probably been discussed at length.... but here's my questions for the wise ones please:

For an event like the roof.... what is better - not just to ride the event, but training etc too? i'm not talking WINNING the roof - i know that answer. But finnishing?
If we compare a bike like the Yamaha or KTM 2T 250 and a 4T 250 of reputable brand.... what's the difference? Is it a weight difference? Are the smaller/lighter 4T just too expensive to run and train on? am i missing something obvious?
Thing is - i grew up on 4T bikes on the farm. and i'm home now for a bit and rode my KTM 250 XC-W and the farm Yamaha TTR 230 back to back.... ok so the ttr lacked power and suspension etc and would not me a contender imo for my roof, but jeez the 4T's are just so damn easy to ride? much less effort required for normal riding and they appear so much smoother? I'm always on and off the gas on my 2T (yes - it's FUN!!!!), while on my 4T (farm bike and BMW 450) it appears smoother, easier to control the power and less tiring (if we ignore the effort in man-handling the 450 in the rough stuff).
EVERYONE i ride with in the fairly technical riding of inanda valley etc in KZN rides 2T's. Is that cause everyone thinks we are roof winners? Or is it that they are just that much better? I don't really get it though cause hectic power is the last thing you need in really technical terain if you just want to "get there". I've never ridden a race ready 4T 250, so i'm wondering what tthe guru's say?
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Offline Cracker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 07:23:59 pm »
Whatever the answer someone will call u stupid

For me, i'd do the roof and any other paddling race on a light 2t.
For all other offroad i'd choose a 4t
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 07:47:36 pm »
KTM 300, for instance, is like having two bikes at your disposal. Short-shift and stay just under the powerband, and you are on a 250/4stroke. Rev it and you are on a 450/4stroke.

With a maintenance bill far under the 4strokes.
 

Offline Buff

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 08:42:04 pm »
For me it goes about 3 things:
1. Weight - 2 strokes are generally lighter
2. Maintenance costs - if you're training and racing every week, 2 strokes are cheap
3. What moves you? I just enjoy the way a 2 stroke reacts under me. Strangely, I like the fact that it challenges me all the time, like an untamed beast.

But... if I was to do the Roof as a rookie, and I still intend to, then... I'd take a Honda or Yammie 230 4 stroke.
They just work better in the rocks with low revs, happy button, low seat height and light on fuel.
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Offline Dwerg

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 09:31:53 pm »
I like both but it's a personal choice in the end. Maintenance is only more on 4t when it goes bang. 2t is generally heavier on petrol so it kind of evens out in the long run. Buying second hand, 2t is the safer option. Agree with Dan, 300 is the best of both
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Offline Dwerg

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 09:37:58 pm »
Oh re your comment about roof winners, roof was won on a (heavily modified) 250 4t  :deal:
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Offline Pom17

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2013, 07:35:13 am »
KTM 300, for instance, is like having two bikes at your disposal. Short-shift and stay just under the powerband, and you are on a 250/4stroke. Rev it and you are on a 450/4stroke.

With a maintenance bill far under the 4strokes.

+1
 

Offline bonova

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 10:17:51 am »
Oh re your comment about roof winners, roof was won on a (heavily modified) 250 4t  :deal:

okay - but only last year? ;)


Ja - think i'll just keep my 250 - it's a beaut - she has a great low end amazingly enough and can chug up hills when asked to. I'll just change the sprockets a little and do a massive service - replace everything before the roof.  Just no happy button tho :( but that makes it lighter :)
This is all assuming i get to the roof this year.... we'll see how training goes for the amageza... BUT - rode the 250 in anger for the 1st time in 3.5 months (since i hurt my back) and it was great! could hardly move my arms the next day tho.... eish!  :biggrin:
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, 04:19:26 am »
Bonova, 2SD et al, its interesting what you say about the 2T. I share bonova's thoughts, but have to fess up and say I have never ridden a 2T bike. Never really liked the sound of them. My question is how controllable is that power band really? Obviously the Chris Birch's (and Danie's ;D ) of the world can work these bikes through boulder fields, but what about the rest of us without burning out the rear tyre and our lungs fighting the bike?

I have big respect to you Bonova for wrestling a 250 4T around and up hills. Is it really that much lighter than a 4T or is it just easier for you not having too much power?
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2013, 07:23:46 am »
What is nice about the strokers, and this is from a weekend rider's viewpoint, is that after each ride you wash[if you want to] your bike, dry and lube the chain and leave it.
With a 4stroke[provided you do the same sort of riding than with the stroker] you have to change engine oil and filters very frequently, set shimming fairly regularly, worry about replacing timing chains, 4strokes tend to decent muddy slopes with great difficulty, trying to lock up the rear all the time, they make a sound that is unacceptable around a dinner table in polite company, yes they sound like a loud beerfart.
Even with a 4 and 2stroke of the same weight, the weight of the 4stroke is higher up, and that is a problem.
 

Offline Pom17

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 07:33:17 am »
Bonova, 2SD et al, its interesting what you say about the 2T. I share bonova's thoughts, but have to fess up and say I have never ridden a 2T bike. Never really liked the sound of them. My question is how controllable is that power band really? Obviously the Chris Birch's (and Danie's ;D ) of the world can work these bikes through boulder fields, but what about the rest of us without burning out the rear tyre and our lungs fighting the bike?

I have big respect to you Bonova for wrestling a 250 4T around and up hills. Is it really that much lighter than a 4T or is it just easier for you not having too much power?

I also believed in 4T's and that kept away from ever trying out the 2T's. I was to worried about the uncontrollable power band etc. Never liked the sound either although there are some that love it.

BUT, climbed onto a friends 300 in the beginning of the year and I was blown away. I absolutely loved it. So easy to ride. While I was trying to get a feel for the bike a rode it below the power band and that made it feel like a 4T. The power rolled on so smoothly. Cant believe I havent started riding 2T's earlier :(   Maybe its just the 300. I dont know
 

Offline Pom17

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2013, 07:33:49 am »
What is nice about the strokers, and this is from a weekend rider's viewpoint, is that after each ride you wash[if you want to] your bike, dry and lube the chain and leave it.
With a 4stroke[provided you do the same sort of riding than with the stroker] you have to change engine oil and filters very frequently, set shimming fairly regularly, worry about replacing timing chains, 4strokes tend to decent muddy slopes with great difficulty, trying to lock up the rear all the time, they make a sound that is unacceptable around a dinner table in polite company, yes they sound like a loud beerfart.
Even with a 4 and 2stroke of the same weight, the weight of the 4stroke is higher up, and that is a problem.


+10000000 :thumleft:
 

Offline edgy

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, 07:40:41 am »
Its a never ending debate with no correct answer....I`ve owned and raced them all, completed 5 Roof of Africas(using both) and even won the Clubmans class at the Roof on a WR450! :ricky: But that was a very different Roof to what we rode last year (DNF`d) and these days I seriously find my little KTM200 by far the easiest to do the really tough stuff with! Mate I ride with a lot is on a KTM350F and its a sweet machine no doubt, but for a smallish guy like me the weight advantage is huge. The 2 stroke enduro bikes today can almost be ridden like 4 strokes(low revs) and chug up anything pretty easily! On my 200 i changed sprockets and turned the power valve down which along with a happy button makes her a little tractor :biggrin:
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Offline Pom17

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2013, 07:45:13 am »
Beautiful bike Edgy :drif: :drif: :drif:
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2013, 07:51:31 am »
That's my next bike for sure. Or a GasGas 200 if I can get my hands on a good second hand one. It will have to wait a while though because I don't want to get rid of my 450  :(
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Offline edgy

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2013, 07:56:49 am »
Make no mistake, the 300 2 stroke and the 450`s are awesome to ride and would probably be my 1st choice as a general all rounder but specifically as a Roof machine for someone 85 kgs or less the 200`s are sweet!! :thumleft:
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Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2013, 11:14:34 am »
One thing is that 4Ts esp 250/4Ts are very affordable 2nd hand.  Everybody thinks that his clapped out 2T has been gold plated.  Tossing a 20 - 25k bike down a hill is a bit easier on my mind.

As for valves: my 250 4T KTM just doesn't need adjustment, so its to an extent brand dependend. Try to avoid titanium valves.

New, no contest, buy a 2T.  I like the rawness of most 250s more than the 300s.
 

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2013, 11:48:44 am »
Get a KTM Freeride; I see one of them finished pretty high in the order at Romaniacs.
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2013, 11:55:36 am »
Get a KTM Freeride; I see one of them finished pretty high in the order at Romaniacs.

I see the Ossa version; the Explorer 280 also finished very high up.
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2013, 04:05:16 am »
Very interesting comments guys thanks. I think I'm going to have to give one of these a try myself one of these days. The Mrs. is a 450 fan and she hates the whining of a 2T (she says it whines like a sick girl, Danie ;D) , but I think a lighter bike might give her more confidence too.

What do you guys reckon? Powerband maybe too much for girl who rode a 450 without wringing its neck very hard?
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