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Offline Dwerg

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2013, 05:59:05 am »
If she wants something lighter, doesn't ride the 450 hard and likes 4t, why not a 250 4t?
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Offline Buff

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2013, 07:03:26 am »
Very interesting comments guys thanks. I think I'm going to have to give one of these a try myself one of these days. The Mrs. is a 450 fan and she hates the whining of a 2T (she says it whines like a sick girl, Danie ;D) , but I think a lighter bike might give her more confidence too.

What do you guys reckon? Powerband maybe too much for girl who rode a 450 without wringing its neck very hard?

Neil, you can adjust the power valve on most modern 2 strokes to eliminate most of the sudden "bang"' so the bike pulls very similar to a 4 stroke, only a bit crisper. They are far less intimidating than the 2 smokes of old.

When you're in the Cape again you're welcome to take my YZ for a burn, but it's old school so still quite raw but I think you might like that. It's a bit like an 18yr old school girl that likes to be spanked :smiley:
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2013, 04:37:45 pm »
Thanks Buff, I might take you up on that one day. :thumleft:

Dwerg, I was under the impression a 250 is not very much lighter than a 450? I only ride 450's and bigger, though we both had Honda XR 250's at one point. Maybe our riding has gotten better but they feel like the same weight to me. :dontknow:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2013, 04:45:40 pm »
Thanks Buff, I might take you up on that one day. :thumleft:

Dwerg, I was under the impression a 250 is not very much lighter than a 450? I only ride 450's and bigger, though we both had Honda XR 250's at one point. Maybe our riding has gotten better but they feel like the same weight to me. :dontknow:

A XR250 is heavier than a 450WR.

P.S. I know of a nice boulder field for your testride on Buff"s 250. :pot:
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2013, 05:17:44 pm »
Look at poor Rovrat's shimming post :eek7: :eek7:.  This is not a 2stroke thing. :ricky:
 

Offline Buff

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2013, 09:37:46 pm »
Thanks Buff, I might take you up on that one day. :thumleft:

Dwerg, I was under the impression a 250 is not very much lighter than a 450? I only ride 450's and bigger, though we both had Honda XR 250's at one point. Maybe our riding has gotten better but they feel like the same weight to me. :dontknow:

P.S. I know of a nice boulder field for your testride on Buff"s 250. :pot:

Hey 2SD, gedra jou, I was thinking more Atlantis dunes with soft sand ;D
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Offline GJ

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2013, 09:43:53 pm »
2st Dan hom gedra :imaposer: :imaposer:
 

Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2013, 09:48:45 pm »
Be it Atlantis or the lower slopes of Table Mountain ( :eek: Die Skande!!! :eek:) I'll be lus for an opfok sessie met Danie en GJ :komet:  >:D
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Offline SpeedMetal

Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2013, 12:03:08 am »
I just came off a 300 2t onto a 250 4t and can't wait to go back onto a 2t. We rid a lot of different terrain from fast flowing stuff to slow technical koppies but I for one just love the power delivery of a 2t. To me a 2t ride the tech stuff much easier as you have less chance of stalling the motor.

Most guys put Recluse on the 250 4t for tech riding.

I guess it all just comes own to different strokes...
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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2013, 04:35:05 am »
Speedmetal, I guess I am just a glutton for punishment then, no Rekluse clutch fighting 4T up mountains over here. ;D



Cant help thinking I could be on the wrong bike, but then I would not be doing rally had I gone for a 2T either. Certainly did not help financial matters  ::)




I dug up an old thread that Etienne started when he was looking for a 2T for MX riding, quite a good discussion was had there as well on the merits of 4T & 2T:
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=46413.0

Here is another one specific to 2T (what to look for in a 2T): http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=52527.0


So if I can sum up (please shout if I am wrong):

2T:

Pro's:
Lighter than 4T, have more power to weight ratio
Generally a great bike for very technical riding - Not so easy to stall either
Cheap and easy to maintain
Now with much easier to control throttle
Cost a bit less than a 4T new.

Cons:
Range is limited
You still have to mix fuel
2nd hand bikes are expensive
Not so great for long, high speed stretches

4T:

Pro's:
Very smooth to ride and throttle control
Great low down torque
Great for high speeds over long distances
Good range and no fuel/oil mixing needed
Cheaper 2nd deals are out there

Con's:
Heavier than a 2T
More difficult to manage in very technical terrain (unless you get a recluse clutch)
Expensive to maintain
Maintenance more complex/involved (filters, valves etc)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 06:13:49 am by BlueBull2007 »
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Offline Dwerg

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2013, 06:02:48 am »
Thanks Buff, I might take you up on that one day. :thumleft:

Dwerg, I was under the impression a 250 is not very much lighter than a 450? I only ride 450's and bigger, though we both had Honda XR 250's at one point. Maybe our riding has gotten better but they feel like the same weight to me. :dontknow:

8-10 kilos maybe. Still a good vew kilos heavier than the equivilant 2t
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Offline Bazinga

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2013, 10:06:32 am »
 :sip:
 

Offline bonova

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2013, 11:18:21 am »
Speedmetal, I guess I am just a glutton for punishment then, no Rekluse clutch fighting 4T up mountains over here. ;D



Cant help thinking I could be on the wrong bike, but then I would not be doing rally had I gone for a 2T either. Certainly did not help financial matters  ::)




I dug up an old thread that Etienne started when he was looking for a 2T for MX riding, quite a good discussion was had there as well on the merits of 4T & 2T:
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=46413.0

Here is another one specific to 2T (what to look for in a 2T): http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=52527.0


So if I can sum up (please shout if I am wrong):

2T:

Pro's:
Lighter than 4T, have more power to weight ratio
Generally a great bike for very technical riding - Not so easy to stall either
Cheap and easy to maintain
Now with much easier to control throttle
Cost a bit less than a 4T new.

Cons:
Range is limited
You still have to mix fuel
2nd hand bikes are expensive
Not so great for long, high speed stretches

4T:

Pro's:
Very smooth to ride and throttle control
Great low down torque
Great for high speeds over long distances
Good range and no fuel/oil mixing needed
Cheaper 2nd deals are out there

Con's:
Heavier than a 2T
More difficult to manage in very technical terrain (unless you get a recluse clutch)
Expensive to maintain
Maintenance more complex/involved (filters, valves etc)


Nice comparison  :thumleft:
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Offline Beserker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2013, 09:37:11 am »
For me it goes about 3 things:
1. Weight - 2 strokes are generally lighter
2. Maintenance costs - if you're training and racing every week, 2 strokes are cheap
3. What moves you? I just enjoy the way a 2 stroke reacts under me. Strangely, I like the fact that it challenges me all the time, like an untamed beast.

But... if I was to do the Roof as a rookie, and I still intend to, then... I'd take a Honda or Yammie 230 4 stroke.
They just work better in the rocks with low revs, happy button, low seat height and light on fuel.

Add that

1. a 2T generally does not heat up as much as a 4 stroke (makes it better for slower riders)
2. a 2T  clutch can take abuse that will make a 4T clutch cringe.

A lot has been said about the power band, but that is a tuning (porting) issue.

Till not very long ago, trails bikes were 2T...simply because it was light, runs cool, takes clutch abuse and can be ported for torque.

Not that I'm planning to, but for a guy that wants to do the roof, and finish, for the first time, I reckon a 2T 200, and the 4t 230 bikes will be a good choice.
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2013, 09:54:07 am »
For me it goes about 3 things:
1. Weight - 2 strokes are generally lighter
2. Maintenance costs - if you're training and racing every week, 2 strokes are cheap
3. What moves you? I just enjoy the way a 2 stroke reacts under me. Strangely, I like the fact that it challenges me all the time, like an untamed beast.

But... if I was to do the Roof as a rookie, and I still intend to, then... I'd take a Honda or Yammie 230 4 stroke.
They just work better in the rocks with low revs, happy button, low seat height and light on fuel.

Add that

1. a 2T generally does not heat up as much as a 4 stroke (makes it better for slower riders)
2. a 2T  clutch can take abuse that will make a 4T clutch cringe.

A lot has been said about the power band, but that is a tuning (porting) issue.

Till not very long ago, trails bikes were 2T...simply because it was light, runs cool, takes clutch abuse and can be ported for torque.

Not that I'm planning to, but for a guy that wants to do the roof, and finish, for the first time, I reckon a 2T 200, and the 4t 230 bikes will be a good choice.

Only thing with a 2T is that you need to have your jetting spot on. I battled to control my RM until I bought and fitted a jetting kit; it is unbelievable how much better the bike runs, how much easier it is to ride and much fuel is saved, not to mention no more fouled plugs. Also with the jetting out (lean) you stand a good chance of seizing the engine in the open stuff.
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Offline Beserker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2013, 10:01:50 am »
Only thing with a 2T is that you need to have your jetting spot on. I battled to control my RM until I bought and fitted a jetting kit; it is unbelievable how much better the bike runs, how much easier it is to ride and much fuel is saved, not to mention no more fouled plugs. Also with the jetting out (lean) you stand a good chance of seizing the engine in the open stuff.

Yes, and elevation plays a role...taking your bike from Atlantis to the Malutis requires a bit of planning, a jetting chart, and a few jets.

I remember the one year one of my mates had endless problems with jetting (near Maseru) till a guy stopped alongside and tweaked the airscrew.

A bit of hands on helps, fortunately a 2 stroke in that respect, is a lot easier than a 4t.
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2013, 10:22:38 am »
Only thing with a 2T is that you need to have your jetting spot on. I battled to control my RM until I bought and fitted a jetting kit; it is unbelievable how much better the bike runs, how much easier it is to ride and much fuel is saved, not to mention no more fouled plugs. Also with the jetting out (lean) you stand a good chance of seizing the engine in the open stuff.

Yes, and elevation plays a role...taking your bike from Atlantis to the Malutis requires a bit of planning, a jetting chart, and a few jets.

I remember the one year one of my mates had endless problems with jetting (near Maseru) till a guy stopped alongside and tweaked the airscrew.

A bit of hands on helps, fortunately a 2 stroke in that respect, is a lot easier than a 4t.

I can't wait for direct injection 2T bikes with proper camshaftless exhaust valves  ;D
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Offline Beserker

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2013, 10:41:58 am »
I can't wait for direct injection 2T bikes with proper camshaftless exhaust valves  ;D

Ossa:



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Offline Dwerg

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2013, 10:44:11 am »
I can't wait for direct injection 2T bikes with proper camshaftless exhaust valves  ;D

Ossa:

Interesting. Like the hidden pipe too  :thumleft:
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: 4T or 2T?
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2013, 10:44:24 am »
I can't wait for direct injection 2T bikes with proper camshaftless exhaust valves  ;D

Ossa:





But it does not have an exhaust valve in the cylinder head, it still uses ports.
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