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Author Topic: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?  (Read 15961 times)

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Offline Tommy Transalp

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2014, 10:01:39 am »

Yes mate at least you know and recall that I was without a job for close to a year. As it is nowdays with medics the market is flooded. Back in 2004 uip to 2009 companies got my e mail from who knows where and offered me jobs as I am a well experienced remote site medic. I have been a medic since 1999 after national service and in EMS SA (fire, medical,rescue and hazmat) for close to 15 years before I continued my career abroad. However, the Gov set ou bursaries to help grade 12's with career oppertuneties and the marked is now flooded with thousands of young well qualified medics and still huge groups of student are being trained. Course name; ECT - 2 years

So I have advertised all over, swallowed my pride and even asked on WD's for help. So a WD helped met to get into ER24 and unto the Sanral project as a motorbike medic. Now I am here and of course before the 3rd of Dec one of the directors urged employees to get tagged and even took us into the service station. So what do you do as an employee, do you kick against it and tell your boss you will never? Easy to sit on the side and make comments, being in the deep water is another story. So yes, that is my side of the story and like mentioned above, I can't affort to 'maybe' get nasty suprizes later on and forsed to pay and play the catch up game. This is what most other people do as well. All other WD's even that got tagged said the same, they are alreaddy on a budged and don't want to be forced to pay later and play the catch up game. We all are obviously against it because we as workers claas feel it. Yes like I said before, there is at least some sort of a service that you pay for (but is should be there in any way) and the only real benefit I have or like is that the tag works on bakwena and now safes the frustration (especially fridays) of a quee.

I am still looking for contract work or other work that pays better, but for now I am stuck in the 'sanral orange uniform' and need to make the best of it. I would love to see this system fail, but I can't participate in it.

Remember the threat about; would you spend R100 000 on your dog for knee replacement?
My answer was no because I cannot affort it; but if I was still earning big money abroad I woul have spent that money on my dog yes! This is the same scenario, the poor people rather get tagged, pay discounted tarrifs and play safe because all are scared that if sanral wins this they will have to catch up......if this doesn't make sense to any one I must rather accept that I'm an idiot then ???

TVB, I think most of us here understand your situation and have empathy with you :thumleft: - what we don't like, is hearing e-toll positive comments - you could help us, by trying to find out how big a problem duplicate plates are or other problems that Sanral is having, such as tracing owners or difficult number plates to identify
+1..... well said Bundu.... It's no use belittling someone because of who he works for.   Maybe TVB can inform us as to how well... (or not) this whole debacle is working, regarding invoicing, etc.?
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Offline Chukudeer

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2014, 10:11:32 am »
Bundu you beat me to it. I agree 100%.  :thumleft:
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Offline Tommy Transalp

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2014, 10:49:33 am »
Eish KR :o...... been at the bottle again? :laughing4: :pot:...... I'm not registered, and never will. I agree that this system will fail shortly, and they will scrap it just before election time so try swing votes!
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Offline TVB

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2014, 11:21:21 am »
Ok I had a word with one of the violation centre managers. According to him the duplicationb or cloned as he put it plates are a bit frustrating because of the following:
Person A buys a blue for fiesta and get it tagged
Person B also buy a bluye fiesta, doesn't tag it and clone persons A plates and license disc
Now person A start using the road and everytime he goes through a gantry the e tag beeps and deduct the correct amount of money. This goes with the confirmation in the system of the electronically read numberplates and the virtual imaga of the vehicle (the take a photo front and back and a vertial image confirms lengh and height of vehicle and confirms it must be a sedan as registered per tag)
Now person B goes through with his blue fiesta and the cameras gets the normal photo, the virtual image and the system read the numberplates in but: no tag confirmation or payment
Guess what happens now - an automatic payment goes off on person A's account at the discounted price but because this car (registration) was registered with a tag the system flags it as a fault.
Now they follow up by e mail or sms (like you chose when registered) and they inform you that tag was not working at 'x time' and 'x gantry'.
Person A will now be reunbursed if he can confirm that it was not him but the cloned B vehicle. They can then do an electronic 'trick' to ensure that mr A will only pay by tag and any other transaction with cloned plates will not deduct but register under another 'accoiunt'

Kilroy if this is your reaction do you think other registered WD's will come forward. Not likely.
Must say, if there is always 'shit in the drinking water-no matter your position or status' and you remind me of just that

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Offline Ganjora

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2014, 11:24:25 am »
This is an open forum, I have been here for many years and made friend for life. You mr Hein aint one of those and will never be

good for you.
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2014, 11:28:46 am »
100% TVB :thumleft:

My opinion is based on principle. Yours are based on what I say, and you dont like.

I stand by my opinion that conforming to this scam is supporting corruption and government extortion. I dont care if you like what i say. As i said, my opinion is based on principle.

I challenged you to name these MANY WDs with etags. But i have a feeling you are bullshitting to advance the cause of your employer?
 

Offline punisher

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2014, 11:29:48 am »
Vehicle A is at fault , for registering
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Offline Pistol

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2014, 11:52:12 am »
My Old man just got his first invoice - 3 pages in total printed on good quality paper with the letterhead in colour delivered to his PO Box, informing him of his R75 owing to them, but can be reduced to R30 if he registers and pays on-line before the deadline of 14 Jan!!! Very expensive exercise that!!! And no, he will not be paying them - no mention of which gantrie/s they were, just the date as far as I can see and the car registration - no make and model/colour.
 

Offline Koet

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2014, 12:33:02 pm »
I'm sorry but getting an e-tag and trying to justify it here is like arriving at school on casual Friday in your school uniform because you were too dof to remember casual Friday and then trying to convince everybody that you are actually wearing your uniform out of respect for the school rules..... :lol8:

At the moment I qualify for the 100% discount.

Until they can prove that:
E-tolls and the collection of e-tolls fully comply with the constitution
They can prove that I have received a valid itemized invoice as per the the e-tolls act
They prove in a court of law that it was me/my vehicle

To those that have e-tags. You are responsible for this corrupt and idiotic system actually going live. May you pay and pay and pay....... :pot:

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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2014, 12:36:06 pm »
I'm sorry but getting an e-tag and trying to justify it here is like arriving at school on casual Friday in your school uniform because you were too dof to remember casual Friday and then trying to convince everybody that you are actually wearing your uniform out of respect for the school rules..... :lol8:

At the moment I qualify for the 100% discount.

Until they can prove that:
E-tolls and the collection of e-tolls fully comply with the constitution
They can prove that I have received a valid itemized invoice as per the the e-tolls act
They prove in a court of law that it was me/my vehicle

To those that have e-tags. You are responsible for this corrupt and idiotic system actually going live. May you pay and pay and pay....... :pot:

 :notworthy: :notworthy:

+1

And, since its a government contract, they must be completely transparent will all aspects of enrichment and holdings.  I want to see who exactly benefits by how much.
 

Offline Sylvester

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2014, 01:34:35 pm »
I disagree. Its my right and duty to speak up against people supporting corruption and unjust laws. So fark em. If you buy etags you are a spineless coward, who like bitching about the kak government, crime and corruption but support it with excuses like 'its the law', or 'i can afford a huge bill down the line', etc....

Well guess what jellyfish - none of us can afford it, but still we resist complying to this scam. So what makes you so special except the fact that you can live without a spine?

Grow some balls and stand up against social i justice and things we dislike in this country.

TVB... You work for these farkers. So its in your interest to support them. So your opinion is tainted and laced with secondary intensions. You said MANY WDs you met have etags. Please name those many, or are you trying to sell is a fart in order to get people to support your employer?

Dont try to put lipstick on a pig. Softcock is not going to work. Grow some balls. Start saving now for in case you have to pay a huge bill down the line. Chances are, you dont have to pay anything.

My right and duty is to manage my finances and avoid unnecessary risks. 

I just wonder how many of those with the big balls donated to OUTA for the previous court cases, participated in protest rides or doing anything else than just making noise. 


It is interesting that the South African Vehicle Renting and Leasing Association is part of OUTA's founding members.  Yet all Car Rental companies have installed e-tags in their cars.  Do you think they would have done that if they positively believed that e-toll will disappear in the short term.

I absolutely detest the e-toll system, but anyone thinking that it is going to disappear soon or before the next elections are delusional. [I sincerely hope to be proven wrong in this regard]

The ANC is not getting its majority votes from the middle class who rants about e-tolls on forums and facebook.  They get their votes from the masses in townships and rural areas who uses taxis and trains and who is seemingly unaffected.  To save face, they will actually try to keep e-tolls alive as long as possible and not easily admit to the stuff-up that it is, especially before an election.

Everyone ignoring his e-toll accounts must carefully think about where his personal "cut-off" point will be eventually. Will it be when you are summonsed to court, and you have to take days off from work?  Will it be when they blacklist you or give you a criminal record; and what will be the price you will eventually have to pay.  I know the courts will not be able to handle over a million e-toll offenders, but they will not summons a million at once.  They will start with summonsing only a few and make examples of them and the rest will cave in.

I believe the e-tolls will eventually die, but not without a series of legal battles and appeals in courts, constitutional courts, etc.  This could still take years, and until then, I do not want to pay SANRAL a cent more than necessary. 



 
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Offline Chukudeer

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2014, 01:59:53 pm »
You Gents with the tags go do something useful and go pay your e-toll accounts. I am saving by not registering, not paying and doing the right thing.....nothing. While you are paying your tolls the system will carry on and on and on and on.....

I actually got a SMS stating that I owe them R1852. Phoned up to ask for what vehicle this was. Turns out to be the never even been made number plate that the eNatis system allocated to my unroadworthy  GasGas 300.  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: 

Come arrest me for that one  :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:
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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2014, 02:03:27 pm »
live and let live and let those who have acquired etags learn to see the error of their ways or NOT ...hindsight is always 20/20 hey as someone previously mentioned who knows where the chips will lie in a year from now...

but seriously , if the most militant the cwoss dogs are gonna get is to refuse to get an etag ,well then fuck that is disappointing ...but I spose its easier to sit behind a keyboard and sprout than actually do something....

each to his own hey,
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Offline Chukudeer

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2014, 02:06:23 pm »
The only tolls I am prepared to pay is the R10 at the last 3 fences gate in DeWildt.

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Offline TheBear

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2014, 02:09:53 pm »
Tvg do you press working for sanral have to have an etag?

Much as some may call you names for having a tag it is my honest belief that they may wish to see sanral fail. . But they would not want to see you unemployed. ... dogs are not like that. ....


Personally I hope you find something else soon. I cannot see sanral forcing people to pay in the short to medium term.. and government will not ball them out indefinitely.  Even if they refuse to review car licences. . Can the government afford an eighty percent loss of licence fee revenue? 


Hindsight is a wonderful thing. .a year from now I wonder where the chips will lay. ...

Yes mate at least you know and recall that I was without a job for close to a year. As it is nowdays with medics the market is flooded. Back in 2004 uip to 2009 companies got my e mail from who knows where and offered me jobs as I am a well experienced remote site medic. I have been a medic since 1999 after national service and in EMS SA (fire, medical,rescue and hazmat) for close to 15 years before I continued my career abroad. However, the Gov set ou bursaries to help grade 12's with career oppertuneties and the marked is now flooded with thousands of young well qualified medics and still huge groups of student are being trained. Course name; ECT - 2 years

So I have advertised all over, swallowed my pride and even asked on WD's for help. So a WD helped met to get into ER24 and unto the Sanral project as a motorbike medic. Now I am here and of course before the 3rd of Dec one of the directors urged employees to get tagged and even took us into the service station. So what do you do as an employee, do you kick against it and tell your boss you will never? Easy to sit on the side and make comments, being in the deep water is another story. So yes, that is my side of the story and like mentioned above, I can't affort to 'maybe' get nasty suprizes later on and forsed to pay and play the catch up game. This is what most other people do as well. All other WD's even that got tagged said the same, they are alreaddy on a budged and don't want to be forced to pay later and play the catch up game. We all are obviously against it because we as workers claas feel it. Yes like I said before, there is at least some sort of a service that you pay for (but is should be there in any way) and the only real benefit I have or like is that the tag works on bakwena and now safes the frustration (especially fridays) of a quee.

I am still looking for contract work or other work that pays better, but for now I am stuck in the 'sanral orange uniform' and need to make the best of it. I would love to see this system fail, but I can't participate in it.

Remember the threat about; would you spend R100 000 on your dog for knee replacement?
My answer was no because I cannot affort it; but if I was still earning big money abroad I woul have spent that money on my dog yes! This is the same scenario, the poor people rather get tagged, pay discounted tarrifs and play safe because all are scared that if sanral wins this they will have to catch up......if this doesn't make sense to any one I must rather accept that I'm an idiot then ???

We all need to work for a living.  Any Medic have my respect and I do not care who pays his salary. 

Talking of which, I drove past a serious three car pile up near William Nichol just before Christmas.  As the Sanral rescue were cutting a seriously injured person out of the one car and the Sanral road teams sorted the traffic safely, I could but wonder if the person in the car was tagged, registered or planned to pay?

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Offline Chukudeer

Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2014, 02:13:56 pm »
live and let live and let those who have acquired etags learn to see the error of their ways or NOT ...hindsight is always 20/20 hey as someone previously mentioned who knows where the chips will lie in a year from now...

but seriously , if the most militant the cwoss dogs are gonna get is to refuse to get an etag ,well then fuck that is disappointing ...but I spose its easier to sit behind a keyboard and sprout than actually do something....

each to his own hey,
.

ICM there is no point in getting violent. Calling the burgers to arms, bombing post offices or the like that you might deem herowick. That would just be silly. Nothing will stop e-tolls. And we are doing exactly that. Nothing.
Without income the beast will slowly grind to a halt.
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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2014, 02:21:57 pm »
live and let live and let those who have acquired etags learn to see the error of their ways or NOT ...hindsight is always 20/20 hey as someone previously mentioned who knows where the chips will lie in a year from now...

but seriously , if the most militant the cwoss dogs are gonna get is to refuse to get an etag ,well then fuck that is disappointing ...but I spose its easier to sit behind a keyboard and sprout than actually do something....

each to his own hey,
.

ICM there is no point in getting violent. Calling the burgers to arms, bombing post offices or the like that you might deem herowick. That would just be silly. Nothing will stop e-tolls. And we are doing exactly that. Nothing.
Without income the beast will slowly grind to a halt.

we disagree, I agree without income the beast will stop ...however we disagree on how to get the income to nothing...I say don't use the roads ....that will guarantee the beast stops absolutely guaranteed ......

there is another aspect to this though , what are the ramifications of SANRAL failing .....has anyone actually thought it through and how does it affect each of us if it does..... maybe short sighted to wish its demise without thinking of the long term aspects to it .... sometimes the devil u know is better than he devil u don't know cos believe me SANRALS demise will have ramifications for all of us....

however , if the money is not funded from tolls it will be funded in another way but funded it will be... there can be no dispute
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Offline punisher

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2014, 02:30:42 pm »
Why should the victim be tagged , he (like the resdt of us ) pay massive taxes and med aid to supply emergency services , or must we no be "gratefull" that another bunch of crooks get to steal our money. ??? Pfffft.
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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2014, 02:40:14 pm »
live and let live and let those who have acquired etags learn to see the error of their ways or NOT ...hindsight is always 20/20 hey as someone previously mentioned who knows where the chips will lie in a year from now...

but seriously , if the most militant the cwoss dogs are gonna get is to refuse to get an etag ,well then fuck that is disappointing ...but I spose its easier to sit behind a keyboard and sprout than actually do something....

each to his own hey,
.

ICM there is no point in getting violent. Calling the burgers to arms, bombing post offices or the like that you might deem herowick. That would just be silly. Nothing will stop e-tolls. And we are doing exactly that. Nothing.
Without income the beast will slowly grind to a halt.

you right there though an point taken...calling the burgers to arms rarely has been successful...lets see I think the last time seriously was around 1922 and we know they got lashed...1993 well we know how that happened ,1899 ditto ...sheesh the burgers don't have a very high success rate now do they ...well unless one counts the skirmishes with the unarmed peaceful natives  :pot:
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Offline Bundu

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Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2014, 03:10:48 pm »

we disagree, I agree without income the beast will stop ...however we disagree on how to get the income to nothing...I say don't use the roads ....that will guarantee the beast stops absolutely guaranteed ......

there is another aspect to this though , what are the ramifications of SANRAL failing .....has anyone actually thought it through and how does it affect each of us if it does..... maybe short sighted to wish its demise without thinking of the long term aspects to it .... sometimes the devil u know is better than he devil u don't know cos believe me SANRALS demise will have ramifications for all of us....

however , if the money is not funded from tolls it will be funded in another way but funded it will be... there can be no dispute

I don't think we are really hoping to end Sanral, we are fighting e-tolling of urban roads - if we win, there will probably be a 10c/ltr increase in the fuel price and Sanral will get more funding from govt and maintain the GFIP without the costly e-shit

the fuel levy costs basically nothing to administer, whilst e-tolling costs more than R1B/year - we can't afford to let Gauteng pay that - we are already only receiving R1 from the fiscus for every R4 taxes paid - the govt keep shifting their responsibilities onto the citizens, without reducing the taxes - as citizens, we need to try and stop that