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Offline nemodakar

E-Tolls
« on: February 11, 2014, 09:38:03 am »
Check out this mail I recieved. Please move if posted in the wrong place.

Whose freeway is it anyway?



By Mondli Magwaza

Friday, October 25, 2013

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The Propaganda is tricking you into believing that the streets are not yours, that it is by grace that you can enjoy cruising down the N1 (assuming it’s a Sunday night ). That you should be grateful of the little that they have done as it comes from the goodness of their heart. And I fear that you might be giving in.
No my brothers and sisters, these are our streets, we are the economy of the country, collectively we hold more power than the government.

A bit about me

I do not own an e-tag, Ok my name is Mondli Magwaza, a law abiding citizen and a married father of a 4 years old boy. I have no criminal record and I pay most of my traffic infringements. I have never even been to a court room, I only go to police stations to certify documents. But in the recent issue of e-tolls I feel that I am ready to be executed for what I believe, I’m ready drive into a road block and declare that I won’t buy an e-tag and get hanged on the spot.

Why I’m not getting tagged?

Simple, because the road belongs to me and I have already over paid for it. In the 2013’s budget speech R32.9 billion was allocated to SANRAL for road improvements which came from society taxes collected from me and you. A little more than R 2 comes off every litre of petrol I fill in my car; this produces over R 40 billion rand per annum in revenue and is specifically for infrastructure development also known as my roads. I also pay my vehicle licence fees annually from which the Gauteng transport department raises well over R 2 billion per annum.

Let’s roll back to a stone left unturned

In 2006 SANRAL undertook the so called Gauteng Freeway Upgrade Project estimated at R 6 billion, which 5 years later ended up costing me and you over R 20 billion. This equates to over R 1 million per kilometer, which by the way was actually a few centimeters resurfacing of existing roads. Competition Commission’s investigation proved that the society was over charged for all the work, but the investigation was called off just as it was close to pointing fingers on the individuals that benefited from these exaggerated costs

What’s e-Tolling

In 2009 Electronic Tolling Company was awarded R 10.1 billion tender to extract money from Gauteng motorists through e-Tolling, ETC by the way is 85% owned by a European company KAPSCH, which publicly announced that they will earn R670 million per annum from the e-toll system. Take a moment to imagine the amount of Schools, Clinics and of course Roads (hello) that could have been built with all this money, don’t forget to breathe.
The fuel levy mechanism on the other side goes straight to developing our roads, if this was really about the roads, the  Treasury would have added a mere 9c to the fuel levy from 2006, by now they would have accumulated more than R 17 billion, more than enough to keep our roads in an international standards that we are used to (The freeways are there, let’s give it to them), while maintaining SANRAL’s credit rating and keeping them focused on building roads and us, the tax payers, on working to build South Africa to what it could become.

This is not some national road in Malawi!

Our head of state with his reasoning poses a question “Why should the whole of South Africa pay for Gauteng roads” well Mr President, excuse me for thinking like an African but Gauteng roads are South African roads, The entire country benefits from us driving around them every day to work our butts off to be able to contribute 41% i.e. R 400 billion of South Africa’s social tax revenue, yet in return Gauteng only receives 10% from the national budget. It only makes sense Mr President that a country benefiting so much from Gauteng’s economic activities contributes in making sure that its citizens have the roads to continue doing their business.

I am an African

I then conclude that this is a harsh and painful “thank you” the ruling party is giving to its voters for affording it the majority that it enjoys in parliament.
I see my beloved South Africa as a golden goose, with a potential of laying unlimited golden eggs for the benefit of us and generations to come, but greedy and impertinent mechanisms are being applied to reach into its guts and pull the egg from it leading it to a slow painful death.
The Propaganda is tricking you into believing that the streets are not yours. I refuse to be naïve.



I thank you

 

 

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E-Tolls
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 02:15:59 pm »
01 July 2014

What GFIP phase II might mean

June was a bad public relations month for road agency SANRAL. The Advertising Standards Authority announced that no less than three complaints against SANRAL's advertising had been upheld and that the adverts should be withdrawn, and then there was a nasty tangle in the Western Cape over people living illegally on SANRAL land who were evicted in controversial circumstances.
And then SANRAL vehicles started to appear at roadblocks around Gauteng. This unleashed yet another wave of negative sentiment from motorists, angered over what they saw as heavy-handedness. We don't think the negative news will stop any time soon, because SANRAL's hand will surely be forced into prosecuting e-toll non-payers – it is the only avenue left to them, since the information released in answer to Parliamentary questions clearly shows that motorists are not paying. What hangs in the balance is whether even a successful prosecution will have the desired effect. Will it persuade enough additional motorists to pay? Or will it inflame negative sentiment further? The AA has long held that the e-tolling system was incorrectly planned and launched, and the widespread view is that it is not a system the public wants or supports. To proceed with prosecutions over this unpopular system could easily backfire and we feel that the correct way to handle the situation is to simply admit defeat and revert to more cost-effective and uncontroversial ways of funding roads. This decision should be taken now, because the original map of the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project shows even more toll roads are planned. These are for GFIP Phase 2 and with the public's current mood over e-tolling, it's doubtful any new tolls will be received positively. Incoming Gauteng premier, David Makhura appeared to recognise this in his State of the Province speech in the last week of June. But if the 'review panel' he plans to set up to examine e-tolls doesn't finally take account of the wishes of Gauteng residents (and their overwhelming opposition to e-tolls), there will be bad news on the horizon.

For, if GFIP Phase 2 goes ahead as planned in its original format, it is likely the N14 will be tolled from Krugersdorp to its intersection with the N1 possibly all the way into Pretoria.. New-build toll highways are also planned, the PWV5 outer Johannesburg ring road and the PWV9 north-south corridor which will parallel the current M1 to its West. What's not clear is whether they will replace roads which currently exist on those alignments, namely Olifantsfontein Road in the case of the PWV5 and William Nicol Road in the case of the PWV9. If replacement is what is envisaged, not only will mobility within Gauteng be further restricted to toll roads, but existing alternatives which are used by tens of thousands of people on a daily basis will be removed.

Before all this happens, SANRAL will have to consult, but it's their version of consultation which has us worried. Only 27 responses were received by SANRAL in 2007 in respect of the original Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project, one of which was from the AA. This low response rate shows that the public didn't realise what was on the horizon, but SANRAL nonetheless bulldozed ahead. It was only in 2011, when the actual toll fees were announced, that a massive public outcry forced SANRAL to backtrack, and it was then made clear that consultation is not taken as valid if the public weren't clearly told what they were being asked to agree to. A 'steering committee' (consisting solely of people in government and SANRAL) announced reduced toll fees, and when that didn't calm the public temperament, a series of after-the-fact public consultation meetings were held at which the public again rejected e-tolling of Gauteng's highways. Over 12 000 public submissions were received when SANRAL proposed the e-tolling regulations – these submissions have not been released for public scrutiny, but we'd be prepared to wager they were largely opposed. This situation was a mirror image of SANRAL's shambolic 'consultation' process years earlier when it proclaimed the N4 to Witbank as a toll road. The process was later declared invalid in court, but SANRAL continues to be able to extract tolls from motorists travelling on the N4 due to a legal technicality involving traffic signs at the toll gates.

To date, SANRAL has only consulted to satisfy the letter of the law rather than to discover the wishes of the people and this was also evident in the interdict granted against them in the Cape Winelands toll project – the consultation was inadequate and SANRAL is now attempting to prevent the very documents which they say justify their case from being released. And we believe this is yet again going to be the pattern if SANRAL attempts to implement GFIP Phase II as a toll project. The consultation process will likely be perfunctory, the Minister of Transport will provide the rubber stamp, and the public will be up in arms at losing yet more of Gauteng's arterials to an expensive and unpopular system, especially since Gauteng's taxpayers already contribute more than half of the total personal income tax collected by SARS in South Africa

But we do believe there is a way to counter this scenario and that is, very simply, for each and every AA Member to object when the time comes. SANRAL can and did ignore 27 objectors initially. It also ignored 52 000 signatories to an AA petition objecting to the tolls handed to the Ministers of Finance and Transport in 2011. But if it ignores hundreds of thousands of objections from AA Members, we will have the final proof that government is committed to tolling at all costs despite its known inefficiencies versus, say, the fuel levy or general taxation. And at that point, the question will be: why?
 

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 03:25:11 pm »
Quote
In 2006 SANRAL undertook the so called Gauteng Freeway Upgrade Project estimated at R 6 billion, which 5 years later ended up costing me and you over R 20 billion. This equates to over R 1 million per kilometer, which by the way was actually a few centimeters resurfacing of existing roads

I think their maths suck

Jeez, i hate it when people want to make a serious point while incapable of making elementary maths - epic fail.  They must go and read Billions and Billions.

One way to better understand large numbers is to compare the heights of stacks of varying numbers of dollar bills. The thickness of a single one dollar bills measures .0043 inches or .0000000679 miles.

The height of a stack of 100 one dollar bills measures .43 inches.

The height of a stack of 1,000 one dollar bills measures 4.3 inches.

The height of a stack of 1,000,000 one dollar bills measures 4,300 inches or 358 feet – about the height of a 30 to 35 story building.

The height of a stack of 100,000,000 (one hundred million) one dollar bills measures 35,851 feet or 6.79 miles. This would reach from the earth’s surface to the approximate altitude at which commercial jetliners fly.

The height of a stack of 1,000,000,000 (one billion) one dollar bills measures 358,510 feet or 67.9 miles. This would reachblue sky, moon, clouds from the earth’s surface into the lower portion of the troposphere – one of the major outer layers of earth’s atmosphere.
 

Offline silvrav

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2014, 03:30:29 pm »
Quote
In 2006 SANRAL undertook the so called Gauteng Freeway Upgrade Project estimated at R 6 billion, which 5 years later ended up costing me and you over R 20 billion. This equates to over R 1 million per kilometer, which by the way was actually a few centimeters resurfacing of existing roads

I think their maths suck

Jeez, i hate it when people want to make a serious point while incapable of making elementary maths - epic fail.  They must go and read Billions and Billions.

One way to better understand large numbers is to compare the heights of stacks of varying numbers of dollar bills. The thickness of a single one dollar bills measures .0043 inches or .0000000679 miles.

The height of a stack of 100 one dollar bills measures .43 inches.

The height of a stack of 1,000 one dollar bills measures 4.3 inches.

The height of a stack of 1,000,000 one dollar bills measures 4,300 inches or 358 feet – about the height of a 30 to 35 story building.

The height of a stack of 100,000,000 (one hundred million) one dollar bills measures 35,851 feet or 6.79 miles. This would reach from the earth’s surface to the approximate altitude at which commercial jetliners fly.

The height of a stack of 1,000,000,000 (one billion) one dollar bills measures 358,510 feet or 67.9 miles. This would reachblue sky, moon, clouds from the earth’s surface into the lower portion of the troposphere – one of the major outer layers of earth’s atmosphere.


Yip....or simply put for every 000 in BIG NUMBER, there is a new acronym

1 - one
1,000 thousand
1,000,000 million
1,000,000,000 billion
 

Offline mtbbiker

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2015, 06:00:57 pm »
So how many dogs are not getting their License renewals notices? I have 2 that expired yesterday. Is this Sapo's fault or is there some bullying going on - as I believe the bill that will allow the licencing authorities to refuse your disk still needs to be approved


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Offline Bundu

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2015, 06:32:56 pm »
So how many dogs are not getting their License renewals notices? I have 2 that expired yesterday. Is this Sapo's fault or is there some bullying going on - as I believe the bill that will allow the licencing authorities to refuse your disk still needs to be approved


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has nothing to do with e-tolls - simply govt dept incompetence

just take your reg papers and ID to post office and they'll renew
 

Offline tgg

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2015, 07:17:20 pm »
can you renew at the post office, we got to go to the local council
 

Offline mtbbiker

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2015, 07:45:33 pm »
So how many dogs are not getting their License renewals notices? I have 2 that expired yesterday. Is this Sapo's fault or is there some bullying going on - as I believe the bill that will allow the licencing authorities to refuse your disk still needs to be approved


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has nothing to do with e-tolls - simply govt dept incompetence

just take your reg papers and ID to post office and they'll renew
I'll give it a try, and report back
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Offline Bundu

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2015, 07:47:25 pm »
can you renew at the post office, we got to go to the local council

yes, I've done that for my vehicles for the past probably 4 years, as these dumb fucks don't send me my renewals or send them too late :thumleft:

edit: not sure if all post offices have these printers though.......  ???
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 07:48:01 pm by Bundu »
 

Offline subie

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2015, 08:01:11 pm »
Do mine at Mall of Reds post office every year.
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Offline Cracker

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2015, 10:16:52 pm »
can you renew at the post office, we got to go to the local council

Come on WP - we been doing this for years here  :biggrin:
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Offline Xchallenge

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2015, 07:11:02 am »
Yes, you can pay at the post office:
Provided...

1.) You have cash
2.) You have your license renewal form received in the post.
3.) If you didnt receive your renewal, you'll have to have your eNatis document handy to fill out a moerse long form
4.) Take your ID along.
5.) Hope and pray they are not "offline"
6.) That someone remembered to load their printers with paper
7.) Make sure you dont go during your lunch hour, because sometimes they decide to go on lunch randomly after you have been queing for an hour.
8.) Dont air your frustration, because they WILL find a reason to reject your renewal.
9.) If you are doing it for someone else, you need a letter written by them, mentioning both your ID numbers and a copy of their ID and your original.
10.) Insert more bureaucracy / red tape here that I might have left out
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
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Offline Kloes

Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2015, 07:27:19 am »
Was told at PO that they do not renew licenses anymore, have to go to licensing department.
 

Offline Xchallenge

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2015, 07:53:35 am »
FML...

In that case, screw it, Im not renewing my license disk anymore.
I have no numberplate on my bike. I will never pay my etolls, and now, I may just stop supporting them by buying an expensive piece of round paper.

I'd rather save the money and invest in Photoshop.

 :imaposer:

Was told at PO that they do not renew licenses anymore, have to go to licensing department.
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2015, 08:11:19 am »
Careful there Mr XC.
No plate with no disc and a cop in a bad mood might get your bike impounded.

One page form and the post office helped me quick a few months ago.
 

Offline silvrav

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2015, 08:18:26 am »
Pay R50 for my local auntie and she sorts out my renewals for me.  :biggrin:
 

Offline Xchallenge

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2015, 08:26:19 am »
If they can catch me! Ha ha.

Just kidding about the disk, but it upsets me that we can be fined for an expired disk because the post office can't send out the renewal forms in time.

What that means is they are wasting millions of tabs on redundant pieces of paper because by the time you receive it, we generally have already updated and paid it.

Careful there Mr XC.
No plate with no disc and a cop in a bad mood might get your bike impounded.

One page form and the post office helped me quick a few months ago.
If you had a psychic midget who killed someone, you would have a small medium at large.
 

Offline silvrav

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Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2015, 08:47:35 am »
If they can catch me! Ha ha.

Just kidding about the disk, but it upsets me that we can be fined for an expired disk because the post office can't send out the renewal forms in time.

What that means is they are wasting millions of tabs on redundant pieces of paper because by the time you receive it, we generally have already updated and paid it.

Careful there Mr XC.
No plate with no disc and a cop in a bad mood might get your bike impounded.

One page form and the post office helped me quick a few months ago.

All these reminders can be done electronically but then the current back pockets wont get filled.
 

Offline TheBear

Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2015, 09:31:51 am »
can you renew at the post office, we got to go to the local council

We like to call it ... civilisation.  Another 300 years or so and you Capeys will also be able to!   :ricky:
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Offline TheBear

Re: E-Tolls
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2015, 09:33:19 am »
Just kidding about the disk, but it upsets me that we can be fined for an expired disk because the post office can't send out the renewal forms in time.

Can't blame the post office for our bad memories!   :pot:
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