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Author Topic: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build  (Read 18280 times)

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Offline I&horse

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2014, 09:46:43 am »
So does the whole tower turn with the bars?

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Online Kamanya

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2014, 12:13:17 pm »
Farklejustalitus

An obsessive compulsive impulse control disorder. The irresistible urge to open farkle packages almost as soon as delivered just to view them, that then progresses swiftly to seeing how they fit that inevitably turns into hours of garage time that was not budgeted or planned for.

The disorder has a strong correlation to credit card debt - the more the debt the worse the impulse and productivity impact.

Usually only diagnosed after the disorder has ruined relations with either the employer, wife or bank manager, often all three simultaneously.

Not curable. Suggested treatment interventions are very expensive and with very low success rates through intensive group therapy with like affected individuals.

Next group session is in November, the lead therapist is Dr. Alexander Nel.



« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 12:18:10 pm by Kamanya »
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2014, 01:26:07 pm »
See you there.

Offline sidetrack

Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2014, 09:24:41 pm »
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks
Little by little, one travels far

J.R.R Tolkien
Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline Buff

Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2014, 10:05:50 pm »
See you there.

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Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2014, 08:40:36 am »
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks

I'm no auto electrician, which makes what I'm about to do with the wiring of this bike mildly terrifying. But the 2013 is fuel injected and has a solid power supply already. I'll run the lights directly off the battery which is DC.

The fairing is from highwaydirtbikes.com

Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2014, 08:41:35 am »
So does the whole tower turn with the bars?

Yup. Minimalist and simple as possible. Had two frame-mounted fairing bikes and looking forward to trying this route. Have to keep it light, though.

Offline sidetrack

Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2014, 07:14:20 pm »
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks

I'm no auto electrician, which makes what I'm about to do with the wiring of this bike mildly terrifying. But the 2013 is fuel injected and has a solid power supply already. I'll run the lights directly off the battery which is DC.

The fairing is from highwaydirtbikes.com
Ok cool, I read the BD lights are rated at 42W each ! That is a fair bit of power needed for a bike like the 450. I know on my 525 the stock stator DC circuit gives a measely 30W's and it's the same for the 500, I'm following closely as I want to go the same route a bit later  :deal:
Little by little, one travels far

J.R.R Tolkien
Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline pietas

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2014, 07:47:52 pm »
You make building a rally bike look reaallly easy.

HDB has really nice stuff
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2014, 08:14:54 pm »
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks

I'm no auto electrician, which makes what I'm about to do with the wiring of this bike mildly terrifying. But the 2013 is fuel injected and has a solid power supply already. I'll run the lights directly off the battery which is DC.

The fairing is from highwaydirtbikes.com
Ok cool, I read the BD lights are rated at 42W each ! That is a fair bit of power needed for a bike like the 450. I know on my 525 the stock stator DC circuit gives a measely 30W's and it's the same for the 500, I'm following closely as I want to go the same route a bit later  :deal:

Uprated stators are relatively easy to find for these scoots I believe.

Does that Poly nav tower not brace to the bottom triple as well? Would make sense and easy to do. This setup is very similar to what I had planned for my G450X rally lite but my workshop and garage fire has probably put paid to it at this stage ... even though the bike was saved I lost my Speedbrain Dakar rear tank, and some other goodies ... and work space and money and, and ...

Must say looking grand  :thumleft:
"Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle" - Hunter S. Thompson

Scoots: BMW HP2  Husky 701R  Husky  TE610E  BMW G450X  KTM 250XCW  Yamaha YZ250X BMW R100S YAMAHA BWS 

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Offline sidetrack

Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2014, 08:47:26 pm »
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks

I'm no auto electrician, which makes what I'm about to do with the wiring of this bike mildly terrifying. But the 2013 is fuel injected and has a solid power supply already. I'll run the lights directly off the battery which is DC.

The fairing is from highwaydirtbikes.com
Ok cool, I read the BD lights are rated at 42W each ! That is a fair bit of power needed for a bike like the 450. I know on my 525 the stock stator DC circuit gives a measely 30W's and it's the same for the 500, I'm following closely as I want to go the same route a bit later  :deal:

Uprated stators are relatively easy to find for these scoots I believe.

Does that Poly nav tower not brace to the bottom triple as well? Would make sense and easy to do. This setup is very similar to what I had planned for my G450X rally lite but my workshop and garage fire has probably put paid to it at this stage ... even though the bike was saved I lost my Speedbrain Dakar rear tank, and some other goodies ... and work space and money and, and ...

Must say looking grand  :thumleft:
I see their aluminium towers uses the mount at the bottom, seems like the HDPE does have holes for it at the bottom so can be added if needed. I'm sure they tested this and are confident in the design sans bottom mount.
Little by little, one travels far

J.R.R Tolkien
Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2014, 09:38:55 pm »
Just seems it would give it extra stability esp with HPDE which has more flex?
"Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle" - Hunter S. Thompson

Scoots: BMW HP2  Husky 701R  Husky  TE610E  BMW G450X  KTM 250XCW  Yamaha YZ250X BMW R100S YAMAHA BWS 

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Offline aka.Goliath

Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2014, 10:13:14 pm »
Curious. What are you planning to use to carry your water? I'm currently designing  a rear rack that will take two tool tubes that can carry 1.5l each, or just one with water and one with tools, first aid etc... But I worry about the weight on the subframe
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Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2014, 09:23:38 am »
Regarding the lights, according to Baja Designs the new fuel injected KTMs put out plenty of power for them, but I will confirm that again.

Just seems it would give it extra stability esp with HPDE which has more flex?

Paul seems to think it will handle just fine with the weight I intend to carry, and has been tested as such. If I feel it needs extra mount points, there are the holes and brackets, yes. I'm also planning on having some spare parts. The nav tower is by far the most likely part of the bike to break on this little adventure.

Curious. What are you planning to use to carry your water? I'm currently designing  a rear rack that will take two tool tubes that can carry 1.5l each, or just one with water and one with tools, first aid etc... But I worry about the weight on the subframe

I have a couple ideas floating around at the moment. One is to build a kevlar/carbon bash plate myself if I have time, with a water container, another is to bolt a 1l Rotopax on opposite the exhaust, and another is a Giant Loop Mojavi with 2 500ml water bottles in the side pockets. Not sure if that will pass scrutineering, but I am assuming they will be a little lax on this. If a full Dakar-style water container was required they would have gone 2/3l rather - there's hardly a point in going to expensive bash plate-mounted water containers for just one litre.

Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2014, 09:31:23 am »
It was a busy weekend, but I managed to fit in another two hours late yesterday afternoon. Next up was the hand guards. The HDB system is extremely tough and again very well thought through. No sloppy little wedges, you get a tap and some CNC inserts to set up a thread inside the bars:



The front of the top clamp is threaded to accept the front end of the bracket.



Which looks like this:



It's something like the Fastway system - there are no clamps cluttering up the bars, and it is adjustable for height, with a swivelling mount and two different height holes. An issue I've always had is getting the handguards low enough - I prefer my lever tilted down quite a bit for riding standing - horizontal levers make for awkward wrist angles. But most handguard manufacturers seem to have completely ignored this.

The HDB system is highly over engineered. If you break this, you're going to have to do some serious destruction to your bike in the process. It goes on without all the swearing, bending and stressed threads that normally accompany handguard installations. Paul rides a KTM, so no surprises there.










Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2014, 09:48:21 am »
I decided to hang on to the KTM computer. Trail Tech make some nice stuff but I'd read a few reports of less then legendary reliability of the sensors and other issues. The Voyager could have done away with a Garmin for Amageza track recording, but it's a one trick pony - no maps and I can't flick it on to the enduro bike for something like a Roof, so figured the money was best spent elsewhere. Again, HDB supplied a beautiful billet mount for the computer. I need a heat gun to pop the fuel and FI warning lights out of the standard mount, and don't have power at my garage, so that will have to wait.



Then on to the switches. I have an XC-W, which only comes with kill and start buttons and a horrible little push/pull thing for lights (with no brights). A tusk switch would have done, but they are also known to fail, and I decided to go with HDB switch gear. After discussion with Paul, we elected to put everything on the right hand, and leave the left hand free to control only road book and ICO.



There will be a push button switch on the centre top clamp to over-ride the lights completely , in the case of a low battery, so this little switch will handle indicators (on the micro toggle), brights and hooter.

This is a lever-mount switch, which will sit on the brake lever and cover kill/start duties.



Unfortunately my bike came with bling levers and the switch only fits original KTM levers. Anyone got a pair of new condition EXC/XCW levers and want to swop?



The brake cable just seems to fit around the front of the billet mount. Will have to keep an eye on that, but seems ok.


Offline MaxThePanda

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2014, 10:01:04 am »
Since I was using a consolidating shipping service out the US, I threw in a few extra bits and bobs that normally wouldn't be worth shipping separately. Like these System Tech Racing bleeder buttons:



And that was pretty much it for the day. Left hand controls looking pretty neat and tidy:



...and the overall picture starting to come together.



The overall objective is to keep the bike light, small and simple. It will be used for off road trips and even some off road racing, with minimal effort to switch around, and so far so good.











These will bring the sun out at night:



Tank to go on soon, which will have the delight of getting rid of this nasty POS. That button just doesn't work at all on my tank, and causes endless frustration trying to get the cap off. Talk about solving a problem that doesn't exist, and getting your knickers in a knot in the process. Dumb idea KTM!



But the pressing job lying ahead is going to be sorting this out:



Key decision is how much of original wiring and power leads (and fuses) to use, and how much to run on a separate mini-harness. I'm planning to run separate leads and clean power for the lights, at least. But I've got to figure a key in there too. Time to get busy with wiring diagrams.

Offline spokie

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2014, 12:29:34 pm »
Nice! Couldn't wait now could you!  :ricky:
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2014, 12:35:48 pm »
BTW there is a simple mod for those KTM gas tank filler caps that allows them easy on and off. Google it - you cut the tangs underneath.  :3some:
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Offline SteveD

Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2014, 12:39:27 pm »
I have a couple ideas floating around at the moment. One is to build a kevlar/carbon bash plate myself if I have time, with a water container, another is to bolt a 1l Rotopax on opposite the exhaust, and another is a Giant Loop Mojavi with 2 500ml water bottles in the side pockets. Not sure if that will pass scrutineering, but I am assuming they will be a little lax on this. If a full Dakar-style water container was required they would have gone 2/3l rather - there's hardly a point in going to expensive bash plate-mounted water containers for just one litre.

You will need 1 litre, attached to the bike (ie not to you), protected so that it will survive all but a really big crash. No point having water in case of an accident, but the container breaks as soon as you have said accident.

You don't need to attach a water container to the bike any more, all you need is 3l total, in two separate containers. Two CamelBak bladders in your backpack is now acceptable.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 09:50:34 pm by SteveD »