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Author Topic: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?  (Read 1455 times)

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Offline Xpat

2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« on: October 13, 2015, 10:46:16 pm »
I have ordered Wings pipe for my 2014 690R and am trying to figure out if I should get new map loaded (RAD does it) or not.

I will be using it with both DB killers in and I know that remap is not required - just the 15 minute idle adjustment. But I'm still interested if it may be worth doing the remap, seeing that its available and reading some of the comments about better power characteristics (here: http://old-advrider.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=952180&page=2. I'm not looking after more power at the top from 5000 up as the bikes has more than enough power there. But it feels a bit sketchy up to 5000rpm, where there is very noticeable pick-up in power, as if the bike runs lean up to that rpm and then richens considerably. I would prefer more linear power characteristics and more meaty mid-range. I have ridden Dwerg's bike and it felt like it has broader range of usable rpm and felt significantly more sure-footed from about 3500 up.

Has anybody here ridden the 2014-15 model with Akra or Wings (they are basically the same as far as I was able to establish, both of them product of Mr Akrapovic) both without and with new map and have you seen any signifiant difference?

Ta

Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 01:53:22 pm »
You cant DIY maps for the 2014 on (yet), so 1st check with your dealer if they have an alternative map for the 2014 models available.  I think they run well on the standard map and a Wings with an insert should not require any remapping unless you mod the airbox.
 

Offline Xpat

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 03:12:39 pm »
I'm useless with DIY and when I've had that done on Tenere (about 5 trials), first time it run perfect, but on subsequent trials (after the first map somehow disappeared from PCV) it was never achieved - it's hit and miss, so I rather prefer more widespread map.

RAD told me that they have the map. I know I do not need new map for Wings with DB killers and standard airbox, I was just wondering if it wouldn't be worthwhile anyway and wanted to check if anybody has the new map on their bike and how did it change it. Seems nobody does.

I'll take it step by step then - will install Wing that I received today, to the 15 minute idle and throttle reset and see how it feels. I'm not after more overall power, just more linear and meaty bottom - mid range. Top is great as it is.

Now for those crappy forks ... I better start separate thread.

Offline pietas

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Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 03:50:41 pm »
Did you speak to TornadoF5 about this? He is the Wings man in ZA
Groot berge en lang grond paaie
 

Offline Xpat

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2015, 04:02:11 pm »
Yes I did - I bought the Wings from him. He (and Runner) recommended to not bother with the map (if I'm using DB killers which I'm gonna), just do the 15 min idle. So that's what I'm going to do first and see how it feels, and then decide if I'm going to investigate further. I was just curious about other people's experience - I may be remembering it wrong, but Dwerg's bike felt more meaty in the mid-range (with Akros).

Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2015, 03:05:23 pm »
The 15 min reset on the 690 will only take if you have reset the adaptations.  Don't bother, it will learn the settings in any case.

How many miles on the bike and which air filter are you using?  Trying to get a feeling for the difference in performance...
 

Offline Xpat

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2015, 06:27:08 pm »
Not sure what adaptations are (I do not really understand how bikes work), but I think I may have read somewhere that 15 minutes idle is actually resetting them. But as I said, I do not even have a clue what they are.

Bike has done 2200 km - currently on original paper filter and pipe. I have bought Unifilter and Wings, but did yet put them on, as I only got the bike last Saturday. So far I've been just busy ordering stuff from all over.

I will put the Wings on, do the 15 minutes anyway as it doesn't cost anything and see how it goes. The thing is, I will ride it with both DB killers in as long distance and noise do not go together. And in this set-up map doesn't need to be changed, which makes me thing that there will be no or very little change in the power characteristics. As I said, I'm not looking for more power high up, but for more linear (or rather exponential) power pick-up. Up to 4000 the bike is quite sketchy (I felt like it was about to stall few times around 3000) and up to 5000 (where it picks up properly) it seems a bit chocked up - probably lean map to comply with emissions. Not sure that pipe itself (with baffles in) will change that - that is why I'm looking for info on the map.

Will report back once I will put the pipe on and ride the bike.

Offline Dirt Junkie

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Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2015, 07:10:22 pm »
Don't bother with the maps,  but get yourself a powerparts air filter cover
Something to think about...
When you complain, you make yourself a victim. Leave the situation, change the situation, or accept your it. All else is madness.

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Offline Xpat

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2015, 07:21:12 pm »
My understanding is that with that I will definitely need a new map - am I wrong?

My only concern with new airbox cover is that the bike is going to get very loud on induction - at least that is what I think I've read somewhere. Is that so or not? If not, I'll get it.

Ta

Offline Dirt Junkie

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Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2015, 07:45:46 pm »
Does sound a little like darth vader growling If you leave the db killer in your pipe, I don't notice it with my akro(db removed) make a difference in performance  :deal:
Something to think about...
When you complain, you make yourself a victim. Leave the situation, change the situation, or accept your it. All else is madness.

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Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2015, 08:07:23 pm »
An exhaust cannot cause more flow unless the intake is modified.  If you do not change the air filter lid, flow remains the same, as the intake remains the restriction.  The uni and the paper flow the same amount, an over-oiled uni will actually flow less.  Equal flow means same mixture.  So, until you change the lid to an Evo 1 or rallye style, the mixture stays unaffected.

As for the 15 min idle, sure, go for it.  The ECU has an adaptation function, ie, it learns your riding style and atmospheric conditions.  You can reset the adaptations via tune-ECU or the dealers XC1.  Then it learns from scratch.  If it is not reset, it will add the 15 min of learning to the 2200km/ave speed = approx total time.  However, you do get to see how high your temp display will go.

 

Offline Xpat

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2015, 08:11:29 pm »
Thanks, makes sense and what i was afraid a bit of. Seems unless I will make the bike somewhat louder, I will not boost the midrange significantly. I try to ride the bike without small DB killer and see how it goes. I do plan to do long distance trips on this bike and loud pipe or intake gets old really quickly on those.

I'll experiment a bit and see - maybe I will just get used to the standard set-up, it's not actually horribly bad, I was just spoiled riding Dwerg's bike, which I now checked didn't have DB killer in and has modified airbox.

Offline Xpat

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2015, 10:12:33 am »
So I've fitted Wings yesterday, did 15 minutes reset (and throttle recalibration thingy) and rode it today to work. I left the big DB killer in to see how it sounds.

There is definitive improvement  - bikes picks-up better low down and runs smoother, there is less vibes and I can even see things in the mirrors. I wasn't pinning it as Wings recommends to take it easy first 300 km for damping wool to settle in, but the improvement is definitely there. The sound is noticeable - not obtrusive, but it may get tiring on long stretches, so I'm going to try small DB insert over the weekend.

I'm still going to check with RAD what new map will do to performance (as I said before, they confirmed that they have map now for 2014). The Wings website says this:

"WINGS silencers are designed to ensure that your bike will run properly without the need for EFI remapping when either of the
two dB-killers is fitted. If your KTM is a model fitted with a carburettor you should lift the needle(s) one notch. If you have a model
fitted with an EFI system and you want to increase performance or you want to remove the dB-killers you should use a Power
Commander, or remap the EFI using the KTM-Akrapovic map for non-catalyst bolt-on silencers. Remapping can be done only by an
authorized KTM dealer who has access to the proper equipment and software needed for remapping."

So they clearly state that, while I do not need new map with the exhaust, if I want performance upgrade even with DB killers in, I should get new map. I'm most probably going to go for it as for me it is preferable to open airbox, as I'm trying to balance improved performance with low noise for travelling comfort.

I will report back what I've found if I put the map in.

Now just to get that suspension sorted...

Offline boland

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Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2015, 10:15:08 pm »
Just to make sure, your map switch is set to no 3?

I find my Wings even without the db killer is not that loud. At 120+ the wind noise is much more than the exhaust.
 

Offline Xpat

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2015, 10:27:43 pm »
Yes it is at 3, I have checked. Just to make sure, the performance is not bad at all and I'm probably splitting hairs here - Wings definitely made noticeable difference and even stock from 5000 rpm up is more than enough for me. I'm just wondering if the bike is not set-up lean in low/mid range for emissions as it felt a bit sketchy there in standard (and I would assume new pipe didn't change the air/fuel ratio, but i do not understand that stuff). As I would be using the bike for long distance travelling I would like to get smaller rear sprocket (44 instead of 45) to bring somewhat the revs down at cruising speeds (going 16 at front may be too big step and bike may start feeling anaemic). So if I can get somewhat higher performance from the map, it should compensate a bit for the taller gearing in my mind. I will carry with me on trips 14 front sprocket, should I need to do some rock climbing or such.

I have sent email to Wings to confirm with them if the Akra map for 'non-catalyst bolt on silencers' will give me any performance boost in my set-up, as they seem to indicate on their website.

But to be honest, the bigger problem is suspension now, so I will focus on that first.

Offline Xpat

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2015, 11:06:40 pm »
I have checked with Gorazd from Wings and he sent me their recommendation (or rather instruction) for remapping - attached in the PDF. It clearly states among others that:

"You must remap if you have Wings muffler with DB killer but you have an aftermarket high-flow air-filter and/or non original air-box. .... Not following these rules will void the warranty".

So I have the justification I was looking for to do the remap, that I wanted to do anyway  ;D.

Offline M3X3Z3

Re: 2014 690R Wings - remap ECU or not?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2015, 10:54:31 am »
The guys from RaceWorx KTM have done some testing on the Akropovich pipes (read that as performance pipes - Wings, Akro, FMF etc)  with and without the remaps and their conclusion is that the standard map is better for high altitudes like JHB and that the remaps are more suited to sea level and very low altitudes. A while back I remember reading some guys complaining about the Akro remaps on their 690s.

There is a very affordable PowerParts performance air box lid cover available that basically lets in more air vs the stock cover. It works well from low down and you can feel the difference.
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