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Author Topic: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb  (Read 959 times)

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Offline husky

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Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« on: January 05, 2017, 02:05:35 pm »
Anyone we know?

https://www.bikehub.co.za/forum/topic/165222-motorbikes-on-trails/?source=lfp

Looks like DS rather than enduro bikes.

Offline NeilV

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2017, 02:16:42 pm »
Do a search of the posters name on the forum, it definitely seems some people know him.
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Offline Kortbroek

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2017, 02:35:25 pm »
I see Kevin Lidell is the guy who posted the video, his name pops up a bunch of times on WD.

Don't know exactly what happened but I can tell you as a mountainbiker myself, the guys put insane amounts of work into building and maintaining mtb trails so for guys on moto's to go stuff it up is fucked up  :dousing: . And yes, those trails are fragile, one trip with a moto on a mtb trail will shred the surface. If you have to ride in the same area, try and stay of the actual mtb trails imho.

Life is fun, respecting each others playground is easy, don't be a c#nt  :thumleft:

edit: had a look at the whole vid just now, shit anyone just try that on the trails around Stb and I promise you there will be k@k  :xxbah:

2nd edit: I actually think it would be a great idea if anyone on here who knows him to explain to him he was a twat for doing this
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 03:29:07 pm by Kortbroek »
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!

Offline sidetrack

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2017, 03:52:08 pm »
The video is gone ? I know in the USA many trails are shared with MTB and motorcycles or OHV areas as they are called. Many guys ride with trials tyres. Just saying in some parts they can share. Off course really irresponsible if this area is designated for MTB only.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 04:03:33 pm by sidetrack »
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Offline Eendstop

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2017, 05:04:39 pm »
Can't see the video,  but they ride on highways reserved for cars and bikes,  so maybe this guy simply returned the favour :deal:
Heck,  some of you are harsh in judging people's actions  having heard only one side of the story.  :peepwall:
Come on,  who had not been frustrated by bicycle riders in some or other way?
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Offline tok-tokkie

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2017, 06:17:58 pm »
More than one oke have been riding a motorbikes on the walking trails on Signal Hill.  Occasionally mountain bikers use the trails.  But the motor bikes have done damage all along the trail - they have gone off the trail then come back on roosting a deep rut across the trails.  This is in the Table Mountain National Park.

Offline ZooDog

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 06:28:38 pm »
I hear you but remember before okes became all fit and health motorbikes have been riding in those forests
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Offline Whethefakawe

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 07:30:46 pm »
The video is gone ? I know in the USA many trails are shared with MTB and motorcycles or OHV areas as they are called. Many guys ride with trials tyres. Just saying in some parts they can share. Off course really irresponsible if this area is designated for MTB only.

Half wrong. OHV areas are for powered vehicles - dirtbikes, quads, side-by-sides, jeeps etc. While you are allowed to take a mtb out there, it's not advisable. You WILL get run over.  Where I live, in dirtbike paradise, I'm not aware of ONE mtb/dirtbike designated trail. Too dangerous.

Mtb trails are typically shared with horses and hikers. Order of right of way is  pedestrians, horses, mtbs. However, some areas - like the one 5 minutes from my driveway - are mtb designated courses ONLY.  Just like there are hiking trails or horse trails ONLY.

I agree, riding a dirtbike on a mtb trail is a major twat move. For the same reason that most dirtbikers hate quads.

The big issue is, this is how riding areas are shut down.  Remember "On Any Sunday" and other such idyllic bike films? Well, today California is almost completely CLOSED to any form of offroad vehicle use, partly because of dickheads who don't know how to behave and where not to ride.

If you see someone do something like this, it's important to stop them, have a chat about the inevitable consequences OR hand out a PK or two if needed. If you don't it won't be long before YOUR riding gets curtailed. In most cases, it's a matter of education.

I hate the restrictions as much as anyone. But as places get overpopulated they become a fact of life. We don't need  dumbfucks accelerating the process.

And anyone who targets bicyclists is a C*NT.  Live and let live.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 07:38:26 pm by Whethefakawe »
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Offline Kortbroek

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 07:37:18 pm »
Can't see the video,  but they ride on highways reserved for cars and bikes,  so maybe this guy simply returned the favour :deal:
Heck,  some of you are harsh in judging people's actions  having heard only one side of the story.  :peepwall:
Come on,  who had not been frustrated by bicycle riders in some or other way?

Not quite the same argument as legally bicycles are allowed on public roads and everyone's taxes build them. The mtb trails were purpose built by the mtb community.

I hear you but remember before okes became all fit and health motorbikes have been riding in those forests

Invalid argument imho as it is not about using the same area but rather riding your bike on the mtb trail itself. Not lekker when you build a trail and someone comes and f*cks it up. Was a case recently in stb on the Gspot trail where someone rode a bike on the trail once and the tracks made by the bike resulted in ruts forming. Purpose built mtb trails are often not durable enough to handle bikes.

The video is gone ? I know in the USA many trails are shared with MTB and motorcycles or OHV areas as they are called. Many guys ride with trials tyres. Just saying in some parts they can share. Off course really irresponsible if this area is designated for MTB only.

Ja look it would work if the trails were prepared with this in mind but most local mtb trails are quite fragile when you put a dirtbike on them.

I hardly think I'm being unreasonable here, there are so many places to go ride, why ruin someone else's playground? I see no reason anyone could justify this
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 07:38:52 pm by Kortbroek »
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!

Offline Highsider

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2017, 07:35:57 am »
Now that everyone seems to have exhausted their impressive array of superlatives to describe myself and my “ilk”, I am thankful I excluded in my video footage our donuts on ancestral graves and of reducing a natural wetland to a muddy quagmire. (!) This may have forced my critics to desert the comfort of social media, pseudonyms and “undisclosed locations” to call me a “c#nt” or “twat” to my face, like real men.
   
To those who seem more rational and objective,  I offer the following inadequate explanation for my wrong-doing:
We never set out to ride on MTB tracks.  Our ride was over 160km round trip, mostly on gravel and tarmac.  Wanting to get to the top of a steep hill, we found an unmarked single track leading off of a gravel road that seemed to head upwards.  This went on for a bit before we came to a wooden bridge.  In hindsight we should have turned around then but instead carried on and proceeded very carefully to the top of the hill.  Not once did we loose traction, spin up or cause damage by roost.  Not even dust.  Our KTM 525’s just chugged up in first and second.  We absolutely did not “F*ck up someone else’s playground!
Having said that I appreciate that some motorcyclists may not be respectful of MTB trails and will damage them with peaky engines and sheer numbers.  (In this specific place it is unlikely because most dirt riders will not bother traveling 40km on public roads to reach a tiny section of pristine but frankly non-technical single track.) The track is also a no-go for 99% of DS bikes – just too tight and slow. 
I am aware however this issue is a matter of principle and global concern.
In summary I sincerely apologize to the two-wheel fraternity, both powered and unpowered, for all the consternation caused.  I concede what we did was in poor taste and bad judgment.  It will not happen again.
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Offline JonW

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2017, 08:39:34 am »
I really wouldn't lose any sleep over this Kevin, complete storm in a teacup.
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Offline Kortbroek

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2017, 09:31:30 am »
Now that everyone seems to have exhausted their impressive array of superlatives to describe myself and my “ilk”, I am thankful I excluded in my video footage our donuts on ancestral graves and of reducing a natural wetland to a muddy quagmire. (!) This may have forced my critics to desert the comfort of social media, pseudonyms and “undisclosed locations” to call me a “c#nt” or “twat” to my face, like real men.

Not sure where you got this bit from but if it makes you feel better, doesn't look like anyone here called you anything other than a twat for doing this, but if you want us to use those kind of expletives in future I'm sure it can be arranged :thumleft: But seriously dude, relax a bit, go read this thread again and you'll notice we were actually quite civil (no pitchforks, private detectives or WD hitsquads, yet)

Not once did we loose traction, spin up or cause damage by roost.  Not even dust.  Our KTM 525’s just chugged up in first and second.  We absolutely did not “F*ck up someone else’s playground!
You do realise of course that on a video people can't see that, they're going to be unhappy.

You see the frustration level in the mtb community gets quite high seeing as no one ever owns up to having made a mistake like you just did.
Props for that  :thumleft:
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!

Offline Omninorm

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2017, 09:50:10 am »
The only question I have.
Was the trail clearly marked or not?
One side claims no, the other claims yes.
Put the video back up. Maybe then it will prove that there was no markers or that there was.
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Offline JacquesM

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2017, 11:05:52 am »

Don't know exactly what happened but I can tell you as a mountainbiker myself, the guys put insane amounts of work into building and maintaining mtb trails

The conservancy where we live has just opened a 70km mountain bike trail. 15km of that is single track. The route was built by a professional team of trail builders. To give an indication of the costs involved: the building of the single track was invoiced at R7750/km. That excludes any bridges and signage. On 1 section there are 9 bridges in 3.5km. There are more than 300 signs, costing R30 each.

My guess is that should some of the landowners find a guy on a motorcycle on the trail, the landowner would probably spend that night on a very hard, uncomfortable bed.

Offline Highsider

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2017, 01:24:26 pm »
Omninorm I have sent you three screen-grab images on a drop-box link.
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Offline Omninorm

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2017, 02:31:35 pm »
I see no signs at the entry point.
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Offline husky

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2017, 08:51:37 am »
Thanks Kevin, sensible reply. I am not judgmental (I've done, and keep doing, my share of sh1t) on this but feel we need to know what is happening out there and 2 wheelers should stick together.  MTB has a lot of clout and it is best not to tick some of the guys (those in forestry and sugar cane particularly) as they mostly turn a blind eye to motor bikes.  The very senior guys in the large listed land owning firms will probably tell you that they cannot give permission for anyone onto their properties due to liability issues.  The mid-level guys in these firms just do it.  Let's keep it that way.

Offline Whethefakawe

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2017, 10:45:19 pm »
Now that everyone seems to have exhausted their impressive array of superlatives to describe myself and my “ilk”, I am thankful I excluded in my video footage our donuts on ancestral graves and of reducing a natural wetland to a muddy quagmire. (!) This may have forced my critics to desert the comfort of social media, pseudonyms and “undisclosed locations” to call me a “c#nt” or “twat” to my face, like real men.
   
To those who seem more rational and objective,  I offer the following inadequate explanation for my wrong-doing:
We never set out to ride on MTB tracks.  Our ride was over 160km round trip, mostly on gravel and tarmac.  Wanting to get to the top of a steep hill, we found an unmarked single track leading off of a gravel road that seemed to head upwards.  This went on for a bit before we came to a wooden bridge.  In hindsight we should have turned around then but instead carried on and proceeded very carefully to the top of the hill.  Not once did we loose traction, spin up or cause damage by roost.  Not even dust.  Our KTM 525’s just chugged up in first and second.  We absolutely did not “F*ck up someone else’s playground!
Having said that I appreciate that some motorcyclists may not be respectful of MTB trails and will damage them with peaky engines and sheer numbers.  (In this specific place it is unlikely because most dirt riders will not bother traveling 40km on public roads to reach a tiny section of pristine but frankly non-technical single track.) The track is also a no-go for 99% of DS bikes – just too tight and slow. 
I am aware however this issue is a matter of principle and global concern.
In summary I sincerely apologize to the two-wheel fraternity, both powered and unpowered, for all the consternation caused.  I concede what we did was in poor taste and bad judgment.  It will not happen again.

 :thumleft: Integrity and the balls to apologise when you make a mistake. Nobody can fault you for that.

I agree, there's unnecessary antagonism between various 2-wheel groups, when they should stand together. Horse people especially do not like anything on 2 wheels, and the Gore/Spandex crowd hard-core hikers too.

But then, if a trail isn't specifically marked or mapped as mtb/horse/hike/whatever only, it's chickenshit to complain if someone else uses it, no?

I'm sensitive to this issue because I've seen too many of my riding areas shut down, partially because of dickheads with bad judgement.

 



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Offline Constantinople

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2017, 09:00:05 am »
Well done Kevin!  :thumleft: Not a lot of people have this honesty anymore...  :'(

I am a keen mountainbiker, so I know trail marking ins and outs. A unmarked single track leading off a gravel road without any obvious built obstacles/bridges/jumps/etc. will even lead me to think it is simply a footpath. So that is why it should be marked, if it was not then builders fault.

However, when you got to the bridge, as you said, that was the turning point...  :peepwall:

Offline Grant650x

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Re: Bikes on mountain bike trails - Pmb
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2017, 05:41:05 pm »
I just find it crazy that the MTB crew have always abused the hiking trails and now they are all up in arms about bikes also doing a bit of trail riding
As the post above would indicate it is only MTB trails that have bridges not hiking trails

I always used to laugh at how the MTB crew would use hiking trails with styles that were obviously hiking trails and claim ignorance

Also a lot of the MTB crew ride way to fast and dangerously on hiking trails doing 50 to 70kph past hikers with dogs etc

Talk about calling the pot black