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Author Topic: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv  (Read 8417 times)

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2017, 07:48:48 am »
It is a pity that real riders of rough places like Losper, who is now also a CRF1000AT owner, is too cautious of stepping on toes to comment here.
 

Online BiG DoM

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2017, 08:13:17 am »
It is a pity that real riders of rough places like Losper, who is now also a CRF1000AT owner, is too cautious of stepping on toes to comment here.

He is too busy riding :ricky:  (OK and modest, and does not need to prove anything to anyone about bike or rider.) I must say that my last ride with him in Lesotho had me looking at the AT in a new light, and this while the Quest was still on the go.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2017, 08:27:42 am »
Not about needing to prove anything to anyone, just be very good to get input from actual owners, who also happen to be expert riders, like Losper.

I personally have no stake, loyalty or otherwise in either bike, and also believe that either bike will be great to ride.

The KTM, if it does lean itself to be better off-road, will by nature of design then veer away from being good as a long-distance traveller just by how these things work.

My Yamaha XT600E is a better long-distance traveller than my 701, simply because the 701 concedes a lot in terms of being good off-road.  The 701 seat is shaped to move around on, and less

comfortable. You sit right on top of the bike, in the wind, less comfortable.

The more a bike leans towards off-road capabilities, the less it will be suited to long-distance travelling.

This is simply why the CRF1000AT concedes small things to the 1090 off-road, to be a better all-rounder.
 

Online BiG DoM

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2017, 08:32:33 am »
Good summary of the debate (excluding the bag swinging and ego mastibation)  :lol8:

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2017, 11:00:31 am »
Only car drivers debate their vehicles in a sober and adult way.

We bikers swing handbags, tyres and all sort of abuse. :pot:
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2017, 11:07:52 am »
Only car drivers debate their vehicles in a sober and adult way.

We bikers swing handbags, tyres and all sort of abuse. :pot:

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Offline Bensien

Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2017, 11:16:50 am »
Dux, if no one gave a damn, why would there be thousands of roadtests, internet comparisons and more tests between models?

But on a serious note , having in my youth preferred British publications , one day I realised that all that was important to them was getting their knee down in corners , wheelies and stoppies , the Yank magazines concentrated on boring actual real life riding , as I grew older and supposedly more responsible I noticed that the Yank style was actually more relevant , Cycle World in particular .
Around the same time I was also doing road tests for Ride It , Drive Times and IOL , and I noticed that certain bikes which were slated by the British press were actually pretty good bikes , the TL1000S is an example of a good bike which had its sales destroyed because some British journo who couldn't ride very well was killed on one . Rather badmouth the bike than question riding ability , and that however very negatively affected that particular bikes sales . With that in mind I will not badmouth a bike I haven't ridden yet .
The other point is that different bikes are different things to different people , I have ridden bikes that others hated and I loved and vice versa , there is that personal feeling that we have with the bike , bike A might have it and bike B not , personal preferences at the end of the day .

I agree with you wholeheartedly. We tend to think that the opinions of journalists carry more weight than our own, but theirs are also influenced by their own biases, experiences and levels of ability, or lack thereof.

Any person telling you what bike you should be riding is the same as him telling you the size shoe you should be wearing, based on what works for him.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2017, 11:21:45 am »
Dux, if no one gave a damn, why would there be thousands of roadtests, internet comparisons and more tests between models?

But on a serious note , having in my youth preferred British publications , one day I realised that all that was important to them was getting their knee down in corners , wheelies and stoppies , the Yank magazines concentrated on boring actual real life riding , as I grew older and supposedly more responsible I noticed that the Yank style was actually more relevant , Cycle World in particular .
Around the same time I was also doing road tests for Ride It , Drive Times and IOL , and I noticed that certain bikes which were slated by the British press were actually pretty good bikes , the TL1000S is an example of a good bike which had its sales destroyed because some British journo who couldn't ride very well was killed on one . Rather badmouth the bike than question riding ability , and that however very negatively affected that particular bikes sales . With that in mind I will not badmouth a bike I haven't ridden yet .
The other point is that different bikes are different things to different people , I have ridden bikes that others hated and I loved and vice versa , there is that personal feeling that we have with the bike , bike A might have it and bike B not , personal preferences at the end of the day .

I agree with you wholeheartedly. We tend to think that the opinions of journalists carry more weight than our own, but theirs are also influenced by their own biases, experiences and levels of ability, or lack thereof.

Any person telling you what bike you should be riding is the same as him telling you the size shoe you should be wearing, based on what works for him.

Yet Charlie and Ewan told thousands of BMW owners what to buy.

I have seen enough riders struggle on the wrong bike to know that few people choose a bike that really honestly suits them. Lifestyle image, the "cool" factor, assist programs, muffins, all these things
make bikers dishonest to themselves.

But you are deadright, your bike should suit you to a tee, even if it cannot run with 800's on the tar, or cannot do technical, etc.
 

Online BiG DoM

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2017, 12:13:22 pm »
Only car drivers debate their vehicles in a sober and adult way.

We bikers swing handbags, tyres, wooden spoons and all sort of abuse. :pot:

Fixed. Spoken from a proper position of experience.
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Offline Dux

Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2017, 01:16:24 pm »

Yet Charlie and Ewan told thousands of BMW owners what to buy.

I have seen enough riders struggle on the wrong bike to know that few people choose a bike that really honestly suits them. Lifestyle image, the "cool" factor, assist programs, muffins, all these things
make bikers dishonest to themselves.

But you are deadright, your bike should suit you to a tee, even if it cannot run with 800's on the tar, or cannot do technical, etc.

I wouldn't say that they physically told thousands what to buy but by their exploits they inadvertently did so , and KTM are still kicking themselves about this years later .

When I was doing bike sales I used to ask potential clients what they wanted from their bikes , and it was surprising how many had something in mind totally impractical for their requirements , but it was gratifying when they would listen to my advice and opt for something else , not necessarily more expensive but better suited for their use .
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2017, 01:25:47 pm »

Yet Charlie and Ewan told thousands of BMW owners what to buy.

I have seen enough riders struggle on the wrong bike to know that few people choose a bike that really honestly suits them. Lifestyle image, the "cool" factor, assist programs, muffins, all these things
make bikers dishonest to themselves.

But you are deadright, your bike should suit you to a tee, even if it cannot run with 800's on the tar, or cannot do technical, etc.

I wouldn't say that they physically told thousands what to buy but by their exploits they inadvertently did so , and KTM are still kicking themselves about this years later .

When I was doing bike sales I used to ask potential clients what they wanted from their bikes , and it was surprising how many had something in mind totally impractical for their requirements , but it was gratifying when they would listen to my advice and opt for something else , not necessarily more expensive but better suited for their use .

No, Charlie and Martha did not physically told thousands to buy BMW's, and so it is with road tests in mags, the tester gives his opinion and the reader deducts. Often
the reader already has an idea of what he wants based not on honest analysis but on factors such as cool, Dakar, Long way down, right side up, etc.
 

Online BiG DoM

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2017, 02:25:41 pm »


No, Charlie and Martha did not physically told thousands to buy BMW's, and so it is with road tests in mags, the tester gives his opinion and the reader deducts. Often
the reader already has an idea of what he wants based not on honest analysis but on factors such as cool, Dakar, Long way down, right side up, etc.
[/quote]

You forgot  "The Power of Dreams"
and "Ready to Race"...  :lol8:
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:25:25 pm by BiG DoM »
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Offline jaybiker

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2017, 03:55:15 pm »
What the Long Way Round gang proved at the end of the day was that the machines they should have chosen as best for the job should have been cheap Russian two-strokes.  :3some:
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Offline Bensien

Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2017, 04:00:18 pm »
Dux, if no one gave a damn, why would there be thousands of roadtests, internet comparisons and more tests between models?

But on a serious note , having in my youth preferred British publications , one day I realised that all that was important to them was getting their knee down in corners , wheelies and stoppies , the Yank magazines concentrated on boring actual real life riding , as I grew older and supposedly more responsible I noticed that the Yank style was actually more relevant , Cycle World in particular .
Around the same time I was also doing road tests for Ride It , Drive Times and IOL , and I noticed that certain bikes which were slated by the British press were actually pretty good bikes , the TL1000S is an example of a good bike which had its sales destroyed because some British journo who couldn't ride very well was killed on one . Rather badmouth the bike than question riding ability , and that however very negatively affected that particular bikes sales . With that in mind I will not badmouth a bike I haven't ridden yet .
The other point is that different bikes are different things to different people , I have ridden bikes that others hated and I loved and vice versa , there is that personal feeling that we have with the bike , bike A might have it and bike B not , personal preferences at the end of the day .

I agree with you wholeheartedly. We tend to think that the opinions of journalists carry more weight than our own, but theirs are also influenced by their own biases, experiences and levels of ability, or lack thereof.

Any person telling you what bike you should be riding is the same as him telling you the size shoe you should be wearing, based on what works for him.

Yet Charlie and Ewan told thousands of BMW owners what to buy.

I have seen enough riders struggle on the wrong bike to know that few people choose a bike that really honestly suits them. Lifestyle image, the "cool" factor, assist programs, muffins, all these things
make bikers dishonest to themselves.

But you are deadright, your bike should suit you to a tee, even if it cannot run with 800's on the tar, or cannot do technical, etc.

We tend to agree on a lot of topics lately. I'm starting to get worried. Seems  the knock on the head I had was worse than I thought. :biggrin:
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:01:14 pm by Bensien »
Why do things that only happen to stupid people always happen to me?
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2017, 05:09:18 pm »
 :laughing4:

Or the knock on my head. :thumleft:
 

Offline Bensien

Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2017, 05:15:45 pm »
:laughing4:

Or the knock on my head. :thumleft:

Must have knocked some sense into you
Why do things that only happen to stupid people always happen to me?
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: An Interesting & Seemingly Objective "Argument" - CRF1000 vs 1090 Adv
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2017, 05:19:20 pm »
:laughing4:

Or the knock on my head. :thumleft:

Must have knocked some sense into you

It did, I like Yamaha's even more than before. OK, just kidding, that wasn't possible.
 

Online dirtyXT

interesting. almost decided to save up for a AT next.   but the 1090 doesn't seem half bad. i like the off-road but commute mostly. following this robust thread
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Offline Jaakmh

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Who needs television when one can simply have entertainment like this at your fingertips!. Can we throw some mud in there ...?
We’re all entitled to our own opinions (respectful).
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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interesting. almost decided to save up for a AT next.   but the 1090 doesn't seem half bad. i like the off-road but commute mostly. following this robust thread

And how could anyone not feel happy with either of these magnificent machines?

To think there was a time when I traversed the Karoo on a DT400 and thought how lucky I was to be on such a steed. Also weird how it was my happiest riding time.