Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem  (Read 1179 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline josh24jones

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 32
2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« on: November 19, 2018, 10:48:05 am »
I seem to have a starting problem with my 2012 GS1200 Adventure :'(. I did some research and have found that this a common problem and is referred to as a ''lazy starter''. I have only owned the bike for about a week. It only has 11 500km on the clock so it has been doing some long sleeps in the previous owners garage before he decided to sell it. Long story short..it has a new battery and I have also tried jumping it and still made no difference to the speed at which the starter swings the motor ???. If i hit the happy button the first time (whether the bike is hot or cold) it swings so slowly to the point that it barely can turn the motor over. If i push the happy button a second time round it swings alot faster and then starts :eek7:. I have checked the terminals for corrosion already.

Does anyone have any suggestions ?
Thanks in advance.
 

Offline madmax

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Rotax (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,302
  • Thanked: 9 times
  • I may be MAD but it MAX no difference
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 11:06:50 am »
interested in any replies
fornicate the proletariat
 

Offline Juan Pablo

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 169
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • AFRICA SKY BLUE
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2018, 11:10:38 am »
Sounds like the Starter relay.

Situated below the front seat tool area. Usually the terminals corrode and then it robs current from the battery to the starter.

Try cleaning the terminals on the relay with a blade and spray some electrical contact cleaner or even Q20. Corrosion is a result of the fact that the bike stood a lot.

Midas stock them if you rather want to replace.... :laughing4:
DT 125, IT175, CBR400RR, '97 ZX7R, '05 F650 GS DAKAR, '06 R1200 GS, '98 TL1000S, '07 R1200 GSA, '05 R1200 GS, '05 YZ250F, '06 KLR 650, '06 R1200 GSA, '94 URAL 650 SOLO, '08 R1200 GSA, '07 ZX14R, '04 R1150 GS, '07 R1200 GSA, '12 HD 1200 NIGHTSTER FLAT TRACKER, '09 R1200 GSA....
 

Offline josh24jones

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 32
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 12:42:28 pm »
thank you very much I will have a look at the relay later on today and give an update  :biggrin:
 

Offline Juan Pablo

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 169
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • AFRICA SKY BLUE
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2018, 01:48:03 pm »
This is what it might look like...
DT 125, IT175, CBR400RR, '97 ZX7R, '05 F650 GS DAKAR, '06 R1200 GS, '98 TL1000S, '07 R1200 GSA, '05 R1200 GS, '05 YZ250F, '06 KLR 650, '06 R1200 GSA, '94 URAL 650 SOLO, '08 R1200 GSA, '07 ZX14R, '04 R1150 GS, '07 R1200 GSA, '12 HD 1200 NIGHTSTER FLAT TRACKER, '09 R1200 GSA....
 

Offline Hamilton

Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 01:40:48 pm »
Sorry for the Hijack. I have had a similar problem on my 2008 for many years and have just lived with it. Bike has never let me down, however I do replace the battery every 12 months just to be happy that its not the battery failing O0. So I looked under my tool kit holder and could not find this starter relay. Any help out there for a 2008 model. Thanks :thumleft:
 

Offline GeenSand

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 843
  • Thanked: 46 times
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2018, 06:34:53 pm »
Ping @Jughead

As far as i know the solinoid on the starter takes care of switching the large amount of current needed for cranking, as it is equiped with a starter motor same as found on cars.
The relay would only switch the current going to the solinoid. So if the starter engages the solinoid recieves enough current to work engage.
I would sugest looking at the wires leading from the battrey to the starter including terminals both sides and wires leading from negative side of battrey to engine/frame including terminals both sides.

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 06:36:25 pm by GeenSand »
Take nothing but photos
Leave nothing but tracks
Kill nothing but time
 

Offline josh24jones

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 32
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2018, 06:32:13 am »
Thanks for all the comments. I will go take a second look at all the wires and terminals but as far as what I could see there wasnt any corrosion in that department.

What makes no sense to me is that every single time I start it...push the starter button once...goes through about 2 compression strokes and then has no more power to turn the motor over...push the starter button for a second time straight afterwards...swings 10 times faster and carrys on turning the motor over until it starts...why on earth would there be ''not enough power'' and then all of a sudden there is enough?

I tried looking for the starter solenoid yesturday afternoon but could not find it anywhere and googles did not seem to be much help either. does anyone have any photos or can explain to me where it is ? it obviously has to be covered by something?
 

Offline Jughead

  • Old rail tunnel, Cradock.
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 5,273
  • Thanked: 158 times
  • Port Elizabeth
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 10:55:47 am »
Two possibilities here.

1.  Your battery.  Make sure it is the YTX14-BS, not the 12Ah.  When the last of the aircooled bikes came out, they were fitted with the 12's with a spacer below the battery to lift it up to the same height as that of the earlier model's 14Ah.  If you still have the spacer below your battery, toss it out and fit the correct battery.

2.  The later models had different starters (Bosch IIRC) as opposed to the older Valeo starters.  I have found that while the Valeo starters are very reliable, the Bosch units tend to get sluggish after a while.  This is not helped by the fact that most of the bikes with the Bosch starters also have the smaller 12Ah  batteries.  It has been suggested that the smaller batteries fitted to the later bikes is what causes the starters to get sluggish, but I don't know whether that theory holds much water.

I have 2 or 3 starters here that have all been replaced due to the fact that they are sluggish, so i doubt whether it would be a wiring issue.  Certainly not the relay under the seat.  That will have different symptoms altogether.
I came here to drink milk and kick arse!  And i've just finished my milk.
http://www.dsmc.co.za        http://www.triumphowners.com/to-car/mkiii/
Supplier of Ticket to the Moon Hammocks   http://www.ticketothemoon.com             
 
The following users thanked this post: Tony the Boney, eberhard

Offline TheBear

  • Stalin was 'n sissy.
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 9,822
  • Thanked: 401 times
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 11:18:47 am »
I have read somewhere and now I cannot find it again, that this issue is sometimes resolved by replacing the main wire between the battery + and the starter motor. 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 11:23:08 am by TheBear »
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline josh24jones

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 32
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 01:04:33 pm »
Two possibilities here.

1.  Your battery.  Make sure it is the YTX14-BS, not the 12Ah.  When the last of the aircooled bikes came out, they were fitted with the 12's with a spacer below the battery to lift it up to the same height as that of the earlier model's 14Ah.  If you still have the spacer below your battery, toss it out and fit the correct battery.

2.  The later models had different starters (Bosch IIRC) as opposed to the older Valeo starters.  I have found that while the Valeo starters are very reliable, the Bosch units tend to get sluggish after a while.  This is not helped by the fact that most of the bikes with the Bosch starters also have the smaller 12Ah  batteries.  It has been suggested that the smaller batteries fitted to the later bikes is what causes the starters to get sluggish, but I don't know whether that theory holds much water.

I have 2 or 3 starters here that have all been replaced due to the fact that they are sluggish, so i doubt whether it would be a wiring issue.  Certainly not the relay under the seat.  That will have different symptoms altogether.


Hi Jughead

I had a look and it has a 3 week old YTX 14 BS battery in it.
 

Offline Jughead

  • Old rail tunnel, Cradock.
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 5,273
  • Thanked: 158 times
  • Port Elizabeth
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 01:15:44 pm »
Two possibilities here.

1.  Your battery.  Make sure it is the YTX14-BS, not the 12Ah.  When the last of the aircooled bikes came out, they were fitted with the 12's with a spacer below the battery to lift it up to the same height as that of the earlier model's 14Ah.  If you still have the spacer below your battery, toss it out and fit the correct battery.

2.  The later models had different starters (Bosch IIRC) as opposed to the older Valeo starters.  I have found that while the Valeo starters are very reliable, the Bosch units tend to get sluggish after a while.  This is not helped by the fact that most of the bikes with the Bosch starters also have the smaller 12Ah  batteries.  It has been suggested that the smaller batteries fitted to the later bikes is what causes the starters to get sluggish, but I don't know whether that theory holds much water.

I have 2 or 3 starters here that have all been replaced due to the fact that they are sluggish, so i doubt whether it would be a wiring issue.  Certainly not the relay under the seat.  That will have different symptoms altogether.


Hi Jughead

I had a look and it has a 3 week old YTX 14 BS battery in it.

 :thumleft:
I came here to drink milk and kick arse!  And i've just finished my milk.
http://www.dsmc.co.za        http://www.triumphowners.com/to-car/mkiii/
Supplier of Ticket to the Moon Hammocks   http://www.ticketothemoon.com             
 

Offline Hamilton

Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 01:51:09 pm »
I have read somewhere and now I cannot find it again, that this issue is sometimes resolved by replacing the main wire between the battery + and the starter motor.
I tried this by running a 25mm2 piece of welding cable from the battery directly to the starter motor, bypassing the solinoid. Still sluggish sometimes, so I live with it, As said before, I replace my 14ah battery every 12 months just to be sure.
Possibly I should strip the starter and clean it up internally. Power could " leak" to earth if there is a build up of brush carbon?
 

Offline Hamilton

Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 02:13:29 pm »
What about putting in a second battery in parallel. Space may be a problem. Think I did read somewhere, some time ago about this being done.
 

Offline TheBear

  • Stalin was 'n sissy.
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 9,822
  • Thanked: 401 times
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2018, 02:55:31 pm »
I have read somewhere and now I cannot find it again, that this issue is sometimes resolved by replacing the main wire between the battery + and the starter motor.
I tried this by running a 25mm2 piece of welding cable from the battery directly to the starter motor, bypassing the solinoid. Still sluggish sometimes, so I live with it, As said before, I replace my 14ah battery every 12 months just to be sure.
Possibly I should strip the starter and clean it up internally. Power could " leak" to earth if there is a build up of brush carbon?

 :thumleft:




What about putting in a second battery in parallel. Space may be a problem. Think I did read somewhere, some time ago about this being done.

Described with pics in the " Klapped the GS good and proper"  thread by Mr. T.  It seems like a cool idea, but adding a battery is addressing a symptom, not the problem.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 02:56:27 pm by TheBear »
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline Mr.T

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 1,524
  • Thanked: 28 times
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2018, 03:24:18 pm »
As mentioned by TheBear I have a second battery fitted in my bike which sorted the problem  to a certain degree.
But as I have read on this thread there have been many proposals and solutions to this problem which has been found on all the buds bikes from
before my 2008 till the last of the AC 1200 bike we ride.
After a bit of testing and checking further I have found a permanent fix that has sorted this problem out on all the buds bikes.

As our bikes age the resistance of the earthing of the bike, the negative terminal , causes the resistance to increase.
This causes the starter motor to increase the amps required to do the job of starting the engine.
The positive terminal is directly wired to the starter motor via the starter relay, as it is the live and the power source.
But please to remember that this transfer of power requires an excellent return path to complete the switch.
If this connection is not perfect in every way we will then have sluggish starts no matter even with 10 new batteries fitted.
So back to 101 testing.
After the test on mine done and found what is required, not one of the bikes with this modification has ever had a sluggish start ever again.
The negative cable that comes from the battery is definitely not as thick as the positive cable.
You will see in the attached pic that I have fitted a thick negative cable from the starter bolt on the engine directly to the negative terminal of the battery.

This has been the final solution for many of the buds and we all happy to push the button and be sure that it will swing with vigour.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 03:39:13 pm by Mr.T »
Stop talking and start riding
 
The following users thanked this post: Oulouis, Juan Pablo

Offline Hamilton

Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2018, 04:59:47 pm »
100% Mr.T.  Current in must be current out. Earthing is very important. Good advise  :thumleft:
 

Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

  • Forum Vendor
  • Castrated Dog
  • ******
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 29,018
  • Thanked: 438 times
    • dustriders.co.za
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2018, 10:06:00 am »
 Mr.T.

Thanks Mr.T my negative wire will be changed this week as mine is also a lazy starter and only when hot for some reason. Even fitted a new battery last week. Still the same although slightly better.
MOTORCYCLE ACCESSORIES RETAILER
info@dustriders.co.za
ENDURISTAN SOFTLUGGAGE IMPORTER
www.dustriders.co.za
 

Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

  • Forum Vendor
  • Castrated Dog
  • ******
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 29,018
  • Thanked: 438 times
    • dustriders.co.za
Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2018, 11:56:37 am »
You will see in the attached pic that I have fitted a thick negative cable from the starter bolt on the engine directly to the negative terminal of the battery.

Trevor I have opened mine up just now. Negative wire runs in a bundle along the airbox into who knows where( I do not want to go there)!!
My question is have you fitted another thicker wire and still use the stock one too? So there is two wires running to the neg pole of the battery or have you taken the stock one off and just use the thicker one?

I need to know this before I burn something out........................................I have the knack to do this  to electrical gadgetery!!! :o :eek7:
MOTORCYCLE ACCESSORIES RETAILER
info@dustriders.co.za
ENDURISTAN SOFTLUGGAGE IMPORTER
www.dustriders.co.za
 

Offline Hamilton

Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2018, 11:08:46 am »
Ok. So this weekend I bought a new battery and fitted a 16mm2 welding cable from the battery to the bolt on the starter motor, as shown by MrT. Kept the old earthing as standard so now have extra earth wires. I left the new battery on charge for a day.
 :ricky: :ricky: Happy chappy, seems the lazy starter syndrome has gone for now. Hope this helps. :3some: