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Author Topic: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod  (Read 9208 times)

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Offline michnus

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2010, 10:24:50 am »
Got new bushes from ACME in JHB Andrew was kind enough to strip a bike for me. Going to use 0-rings as dust seals next to the bushes

Fok weet kannie dink dis nie n wearable item op 650's nie. BMW het nie eens seals nie. Die nuwe 650 wat ek gekoop het is verseker nie gediens soos dit moes gewees het nie, anders sou dit nie so uit gedraai het na 40000km nie.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 10:25:20 am by michnus »
 

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2010, 10:25:11 am »
Michnus, it should not have been necessary to heat the swingarm.  Any monkey with a press should have been able to remove them for you.  I mean, if I could do mine, anyone can!  :biggrin:  

The new bearings must be pressed in to the correct depth so don't moer them in wif a moerometer.  They need to be recessed 3mm I think.  I made a small cylindrical block with a 3mm protrusion which prevents the bearing being pressed in further.

IMO the grease nipple mod is a must.  I force grease in there regularly and especially if I have been on a ride with water-crossings.  

I am going to be doing Harold's this weekend so if you need more pics, shout.
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2010, 10:27:35 am »
Got new bushes from ACME in JHB Andrew was kind enough to strip a bike for me. Going to use 0-rings as dust seals next to the bushes

Fok weet kannie dink dis nie n wearable item op 650's nie. BMW het nie eens seals nie. Die nuwe 650 wat ek gekoop het is verseker nie gediens soos dit moes gewees het nie, anders sou dit nie so uit gedraai het na 40000km nie.

Are you referring to the inner races or bushes like mine?
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Offline michnus

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2010, 10:29:19 am »
Pel jy verstaan nie.  :biggrin: The inner races fell out they were rusted to small bits and the bearing housing were rusted tight to the shaft. The manual and f650 also recommend heating to 100degrees. even then I had to moer them quite hard to just get them to loose grip. I do not have a press and the vice had to do to get them out the last couple of cm's.

The 3mm gap is for the seal to sit tight to the bearing but not critical if 5mm just have a bit more dust that might penetrate if not sealing well. You also have to heat it up to 100degrees when fitting the new bearings. They went in like butter with just tapping them in with a 20size socket which fit perfectly in the hole.

Mine is done, will just fit the new bushes on Monday when I get them
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 10:34:29 am by michnus »
 

Offline michnus

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2010, 10:29:55 am »
Got new bushes from ACME in JHB Andrew was kind enough to strip a bike for me. Going to use 0-rings as dust seals next to the bushes

Fok weet kannie dink dis nie n wearable item op 650's nie. BMW het nie eens seals nie. Die nuwe 650 wat ek gekoop het is verseker nie gediens soos dit moes gewees het nie, anders sou dit nie so uit gedraai het na 40000km nie.

Are you referring to the inner races or bushes like mine?

The bushes, there's only them and the bearings. I am not going to the grease nipple mod, it is easy enough on every 10000km to quickly strip it out and re grease and also to inspect the bearings. with the grease nipple mod it will give you a false sense of security thinking it is always okay and then you get kak.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 10:35:43 am by michnus »
 

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2010, 10:37:12 am »
Jy praat nou van die part met die rooi pyltjie?  Dit is die "Inner Race"

Ek het die bearings vervang met bushes, die groen pyltjies.

Ek het ook "O-rings" (geel pyltjies) gebruik (my R3 gekos vir 8 ) in plaas van dir BMW seals.  Hulle is R25 elk!  ???
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 10:38:51 am by Jughead »
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Offline michnus

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2010, 10:51:00 am »
yes ek's met jou, verstaan heeltemal reg.

Ek het weer bearings gebruik, nie copper bushes laat maak nie. The bushring is named on the fish

Maar wat jy nou se, het ek nie eerste reg verstaan op jou eerste thread nie. Jy se jy het nie meer bearings in die swing arm nie? Hoe gaan daar grease inkom tussen die bush en copper al het jy grease nipples, die tolerance is te tight? Gaan daar nie te veel wear wees nie?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 11:11:50 am by michnus »
 

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2010, 11:22:25 am »
yes ek's met jou, verstaan heeltemal reg.

Ek het weer bearings gebruik, nie copper bushes laat maak nie. The bushring is named on the fish

Maar wat jy nou se, het ek nie eerste reg verstaan op jou eerste thread nie. Jy se jy het nie meer bearings in die swing arm nie? Hoe gaan daar grease inkom tussen die bush en copper al het jy grease nipples, die tolerance is te tight? Gaan daar nie te veel wear wees nie?

Nee, ek het nie meer bearing in die Swingarm nie.  Die gedeelte tussen die 2 Phosphor Bronze bushes is vol grease wat onder drukking is.  Dit is daaring vorseer met die greasegun.  Die enigste plek waar die grease kan uitkom is tussen die bush en die inner race.  Wat dit basies verhoed is dat water en kak nie daar kan inkom nie omdat die grease (Wat onder hoer druk is) probeer uitkom.  As dit wel begin wear, sal dit grease makliker kan uitkom, wat dan beteken dat die grease in die regte plek is, tussen die bush en die inner race.

Verskoon asb my afrikaan.  Ek is 'n soutie!  :biggrin:
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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2010, 11:28:16 am »
Still wanted to add.

Your bearings end up looking the way they do because water and sh1t gets into them.  With the grease nipples there I can make sure that

1. there is always grease on the bearings,
2. that water and crap cannot get in there because it is full of grease and
3. if water and crap did get in there it will be forced out the next time I force grease into the center.

This does not mean that I no longer remove the swingarm to check them.  I still do that, but I am minimizing the damage and wear on the races between services.
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Offline RobC

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2010, 11:56:58 am »
Great ideas and good tips here! :thumleft:
This grease nipple mod has also been done on some KLR's to great effect, will be doing mine next time I take the linkages apart for a checkup.
 

Offline lecap

Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2010, 09:18:14 am »
A few things:
O rings will work fine if you have grease nipples and use them. If you don''t fit grease nipples you should use shaft seals they give a much better seal and will stand up to wear from dust and grit on the outside for much longer
.
Regardless if you use o-rings or shaft seals you should provide a little void or equalisation hole (small, maybe 1.5mm) to allow the old grease and trapped air to get squirted out of the bearing. Ideally position the grease nipple very close to one seal and the void or bore very close to the other side of the bearing.

If you use "normal" single lip shaft sels it also helps to fit them "the wrong way around" means with the hollow side and spring (if any) facing outwards as the pressure will lift the sealing lip and allow trapped air & old grease to escape.

It's a bit of mechanical effort to nipple the KLR's rear swingarm pivot & cushion lever:
You'll have to drill & tap and crossdrill the bolts as well as cut grease grooves to allow the grrease from the cross bore to the holes. Make the grooves shallow and nicely rounded (like with a 2mm radius shaped chisel and maybe 0.2mm deep as you don't want to create too much of a stress concentrator. You have to drill holes into the needle bearings inner races in a position that comes to rest above the grease groove in the bolt when fitted. Drilling the inner races ain't plain sailing as you have to use a diamond tipped drill bit thanks to them being case hardened.
The needle bearings supporting the two bolts holding the "dogbones" can more easily be supplied with grease from nipples fitted into the swingarm or cushion lever between the bearings. Consider making and fitting spacers between the two bearings to reduce the size of the void between them (=reducing the amount of grease it takes to fill them).
Last but not least you have to provide the grease escape routes as mentioned above.

Too much effort to make it worthwhile IMHO as I never experienced problems with the KLR's swingarm pivot once greased well and regreased every 20,000km (of course no pressure washer attacks).
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Offline RobC

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2010, 09:29:58 am »

Too much effort to make it worthwhile IMHO as I never experienced problems with the KLR's swingarm pivot once greased well and regreased every 20,000km (of course no pressure washer attacks).
Thanks. After reading that... toss that idea! Spend the time and money on a ride! :imaposer:
Much more fun spending quality time stripping down the bike suspension every 20,000k for a good wash and lube. :thumleft:
About the only time it really needs a wash in any case! :imaposer:
 

Offline lecap

Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2010, 08:54:50 am »
Jy praat nou van die part met die rooi pyltjie?  Dit is die "Inner Race"

Ek het die bearings vervang met bushes, die groen pyltjies.

Ek het ook "O-rings" (geel pyltjies) gebruik (my R3 gekos vir 8 ) in plaas van dir BMW seals.  Hulle is R25 elk!  ???

Did you realize that your OEM seals also serve as some sort of thrust washers limiting axial movement of the swingarm?
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2010, 02:23:27 pm »
Did you realize that your OEM seals also serve as some sort of thrust washers limiting axial movement of the swingarm?

No, I didn't realize that Lecap.  What disadvantages would there be to using rubber O-rings instead of the spongy foam-like OEM seals?
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Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2010, 02:49:00 pm »
Did you realize that your OEM seals also serve as some sort of thrust washers limiting axial movement of the swingarm?

No, I didn't realize that Lecap.  What disadvantages would there be to using rubber O-rings instead of the spongy foam-like OEM seals?

if everything is machined to be a tight fit i cant see it being much of a problrm  :-\
 

Offline lecap

Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2010, 07:45:01 am »
Did you realize that your OEM seals also serve as some sort of thrust washers limiting axial movement of the swingarm?

No, I didn't realize that Lecap.  What disadvantages would there be to using rubber O-rings instead of the spongy foam-like OEM seals?

Sorry I was thinking Jap. bikes which actually do have thrust washers / thrust caps being part of the swingarm bearings or bearing seals. The Dakkie swingarm is supported laterally by the lip of the inner race and the seal.

Re. heating the swingarm to replace the bearings: Heating the F650GS swingarm will only help to burn your fingers. The difference between the thermal expansion coefficients of the swingarm (low carbon low alloy steel thermal expansion coefficient α around 11 x 10^-6/C) and the outer race of the needle bearing (high carbon steel α = 10.8 x 10^-6/C) is basically zilch. Different story with alli swingarms. α = 23 x 10^-6/C
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Offline michnus

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2010, 08:25:27 am »
Why would BMW mention it in their workshop manual heating the bearing seat to 100degrees if it is bs, or did they just mention it to make up billable time?
The new bearings went into the bearing seat with very little force after heating the bearing seat up.
The shaft seals can not act as thrust washer they are way to soft for it.

Tell me this. Took the swing arm out and is not able to get it back in with the black plastic caps that must go on the outside of the swing arm. I took the bushes out and fit them into the space where the swing arm must fit and the bushes only fit with zero space for the plastic washers. How de hell can a frame "close up" after removing the swing arm?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 08:31:49 am by michnus »
 

Offline RobC

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2010, 08:32:23 am »
LeCap... fitting bearings by heating up the part that the bearing fit's into works on all kinds of metals, more so with Ali, less with steel. The big trick is to freeze/cool the bearing as well. I have fitted bearings using this method where the expansion was sufficient for the cool bearing to slip in with no effort at all. Once the part and bearing reach ambient they cannot be budged without using a persuasion tool of some sort.
Heating to remove is another story, especially if the bearing/part are steel... :mwink:
 

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2010, 08:44:06 am »
Tell me this. Took the swing arm out and is not able to get it back in with the black plastic caps that must go on the outside of the swing arm. I took the bushes out and fit them into the space where the swing arm must fit and the bushes only fit with zero space for the plastic washers. How de hell can a frame "close up" after removing the swing arm?

O donner!  Michnus, you broke it!!   :imaposer:

Just loosen the bolt that holds the lower frame, the one below the motor that the sidestand attaches to.  It tends to clamp the frame together.  Just remember to tighten in again afterwards.
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Offline michnus

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Re: Dakar Swingarm Bearing Mod
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2010, 08:52:44 am »
don't' laugh I are expert at stripping stuff , getting them together is where I f-up the best, most of the times the bike get towed away   :imaposer:
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 08:58:09 am by michnus »