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Offline JourneyMan

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« on: May 24, 2006, 03:58:54 pm »
I see Huqvarna and KTM lists Enduro and Motorcross models.

Me not so clever to see the difference in the pictures.

1. What is the difference between the two set-ups?

2. Which one should one consider to should one want to get a more off-road bike? Take an average bloke like me with not too much skills.

3. Other brands? Do they also have this options available?
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shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2006, 04:11:02 pm »
You ride very differently around a MX track than you do on an offroad enduro ride.
The MX bikes have shorter gearing and better suspension to take the big landings from the jumps.
Not just shorter gearing by the gears are closer together so you can always be on the boil, an enduro has wider ratios. More top end.

Some can take an MX bike and just by changing the sprockets turn it into a pretty good enduro, the KX250 for example.

Example. KTM have SX and then EXC (XC-Wide) , Yamaha = RZ and WR , Kawasaki not really but the KDX is aimed at Enduro, Honda has CRF-R and CRF-X.

Other things you find is they add a light to the enduro one, and an electric start.
The MX bikes are usually kick. With the new 4-strokes they all going elec as its a bitch to kick a hot or flooded 4-stroke

Unless you want to go jumping 2 stories high, get an Enduro spec bike for offroad riding.

For a beginner a 200 class bike is best , the 250 4-strokes are in this class and are looking really good these days.
Unless you never want to race, then look at the cheaper old technology bikes like the yamaha TTR-250.

KDX is a wierd one, its old tech, enduro only but can cover beginner to intermediate and even expert if you want it too.
The last regional in CT was won by a KDX overall.
 

Offline JourneyMan

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2006, 04:22:44 pm »
Thanks Shark.

Wishlist is getting bigger.
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shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2006, 04:45:55 pm »
For you...  

Hmmm, Honda, Yamaha or KTM.
I dont see you doing Kawa, Suzuki or one of the fringe like TM , Husky, Gas Gas , Husaberg.

Then are you a 4-stroke or 2-stroke kinda guy.

4 stroke then probably Yamaha WR250
2 stroke then I suggest KTM 200 XC-W

Unless you just jump into it and get a 450 right from the start.
WR450 or CRF450X
Thats the new market, 2nd hand there are a lot of options.

Pros and Cons of 4 vs 2 stroke.
4 stroke is simple to run, no pre mix, just fill up and go. Less dirt and smoke.
But cost is very high in maintenance. And example was a dude buying valves and valve springs for his 4-stroke Honda 450, R1700 and R1800 for the springs.
You could rebuild the entire top and bottom end of a 2-stroke for that. Ok not the KTM those parts prices are in a league all on thier own ... ;)

I went new KDX200, and that is not a bad choice, old models (aircooled) go for under R10k, newish ones you wont mind riding hard can be had for under 20.
2nd hand its better to go 2-stroke in case you have to spend a lot to fix it.
New piston, reeds etc will not cost as much.
And 2-stroke are much better, stolen signature line - 2 stroke accelerate, 4 strokes merely gather speed.

My total cost of ownership should be really low and the bike is capable enough to see me all the way to national competition level should I go that route, if not its more than enough to rip the trails no matter where they are. I can focus on riding and riding trips and not expensive maintenance, cheap maintenance is part of the jol.
 

Offline JourneyMan

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2006, 05:02:02 pm »
Have ridden the CRF450X on the DR 2006. Straight easy roads for about 60km's. A bit high for my liking and was not prepared for the power underhand so I took it easy.

2004 I rode the Yamaha 250 MX (not sure what model but two stroke)

Setup was MX as explained by you above and it makes sense now. One could not get a "comfortable riding speed" on the 2-stroke. Powerband was very quick and it was either top revs very quickly or going very slow very slow. No inbetween.  Was shite to ride on the longer stretches. Was lekker though on the dunes! :P

CRF450 4stroke much smoother on the throttle. Unfortunatley the CRF had a stuck valve developed on the first trip up Dune 7 and that was that for the dunes. Did not have a chance to take it onto the dunes. :cry:
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shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2006, 05:09:49 pm »
Check this website digitaldan once sent me, this dude is over the bling and performance penis issues we get and has settled on the TT-250R as a general trails bike. Like the dude I know in Ponto too.
I see his and your point in the KDX too, its either WFO or off.
The 2-strokes with higher torque like the KDX220 are a bit better in this regard, but you saying you like the cruising along says you need a 4-stroke.

The 250 and 450's are generally the same frame size, not muich smaller.
Maybe see the KX250F if you dont mind going green.
 

shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2006, 05:17:55 pm »
Another non compeditive bike to consider is the DRZ-400E , the enduro spec one.
Really capable offroad, with enough power to do almost anything.

Or just get a KTM950 Super Enduro.
 

masehare

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2006, 05:38:17 pm »
Quote from: "shark_za"

Example. KTM have SX and then EXC (XC-Wide) , Yamaha = RZ and WR *SNIP*


Hey Shark_za, you surely don't want to take one of these around an MX track...


 :lol:  You probably meant a Yamaha YZ...
 

shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2006, 05:48:50 pm »
hehehe, I used to beat RZ50's on my AR50. It was a 50 , honest, it didnt have an 80 kit installed.

Yeah, sorry, YZ.
 

Kev

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2006, 06:22:24 pm »
Quote from: "shark_za"
Or just get a KTM950 Super Enduro.

 
Thanks for the advice there Sharkey. I will do just that!!  :D  :lol:
 

Offline JourneyMan

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2006, 07:14:20 pm »
Quote from: "shark_za"


2nd hand its better to go 2-stroke in case you have to spend a lot to fix it.
New piston, reeds etc will not cost as much.
And 2-stroke are much better, stolen signature line - 2 stroke accelerate, .


Not sure I would go pre-owned on MX/Enduro. Those bikes takes a hammering if it is used for what is was intended for. Especially the under 10k jobbies. Had too many misfortunes on the two DR with those bikes. 4 went belly up within the first two days! :shock:  :cry:  That after a engine overhaul. OK, maybe the guys who did the overhauls did not know what they were doing.

I'd rather go new. Not so good with fixing anything that works with some sort of mechanical process :oops: and do not see myself stripping a bike in my garage in an attemp to fix it, so I'd prefer it working 100% from day one under warranty.

Maybe I'm wrong on this.  :?
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Offline sidetrack

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2006, 07:35:26 pm »
I would suggest the DRZ 400 E. It can go most places a proper mx / enduro bike can yet you can ride it to the Cape if you want to without worrying about valve adjustments and oil changes. The E is alot lighter than my S (about 15 kg) and a good E can be bought for as little as R30 000. Some E's are street legal as well. A 250 is also a good choice especially for slow technical stuff but the urge would always be there for a bit more power. I had 50 000 plus km's on my DRZ 250 without any problems when I sold it. XR 250 and TTR 250 also a good choice. To me the 250 race 4-strokes is just too finicky to ride. Lots of maintenance and you have to ride it hard to get the best from it. They redline at 11 000 - 12 000 rpm's  :shock:
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Offline krazy-eyes

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2006, 08:04:19 pm »
i wouldnt bother with anything less than 450 four-stroke, or 250 two-stroke. you're just gonna end up wanting to upgrade after 4 rides.
take it from me: my 1st quad was a 350 fourstroke, and i wished i had gone for the 450 right from the get go (which i eventually got). you just end up wasting money upgrading.

250 four-strokes are very under powered when compared to a 250 two stroke. they really should be compared to a 125 two-stroke. the only reason they exist is because of overseas emisions controll laws that are forcing manufacturers to make less and less two-strokes and more four-strokes.

my 2c worth.
 

Offline funacide

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2006, 10:09:09 pm »
Quote from: "shark_za"
Check this website digitaldan once sent me, this dude is over the bling and performance penis issues we get and has settled on the TT-250R as a general trails bike. Like the dude I know in Ponto too.
I see his and your point in the KDX too, its either WFO or off.
The 2-strokes with higher torque like the KDX220 are a bit better in this regard, but you saying you like the cruising along says you need a 4-stroke.

The 250 and 450's are generally the same frame size, not muich smaller.
Maybe see the KX250F if you dont mind going green.


Am I missing something or is there a link missing??
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shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2006, 12:11:39 am »
 

shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2006, 08:42:29 am »
Quote from: "krazy-eyes"
the only reason they exist is because of overseas emisions controll laws that are forcing manufacturers to make less and less two-strokes and more four-strokes.


And because some riders realise that even a 250 4T is more power than they can actually use and people buy them cos they are lighter and easier to ride.
Sometimes its about practicality and not show, imagine buying a KTM950 and riding it like a girl, thats just wrong.
 

Offline Rooibaard

Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2006, 09:23:24 am »
That guy said he modified his wr250f for trail riding.
isn't that supposed to be already a trailriding/enduro bike?
What would you have to modify on a wr?
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shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2006, 09:28:35 am »
True, ask him.
Heavier flywheel?  Skid plate?

Some enduros are made for higher average speeds, for racing over semi offroad conditions.
Proper technical stuff could use different shocks and gearing to do better on tight trails.
 

Offline Welsh

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2006, 09:44:38 am »
Quote from: "shark_za"
Quote from: "krazy-eyes"
the only reason they exist is because of overseas emisions controll laws that are forcing manufacturers to make less and less two-strokes and more four-strokes.


And because some riders realise that even a 250 4T is more power than they can actually use and people buy them cos they are lighter and easier to ride.
Sometimes its about practicality and not show, imagine buying a KTM950 and riding it like a girl, thats just wrong.


I believe it is getting pretty tricky for the strokers to meet the latest regs.

But on the last point, I was passed on the N1 this morning by a silver 950 Katoom being ridden very nicely by a "girl". I think it was "skinny" from the Think Bike forum, she normally rides the Yamaha R thing with the pink flames on it.

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shark_za

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Enduro vs. Motorcross
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2006, 09:51:33 am »
Heard she had gotten one.
Damn thats a fine combo.