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Author Topic: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?  (Read 1484 times)

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Offline Gee S

I decided to check valve clearance on my 690 in preparation for my upcoming trip to the Koes rally. The outlet valves was in spec while the inlets were below the minimum clearance and had to be adjusted(re shimmed).

I noticed that the roller shaft on the inlet rocker arm have started to come out and that there was rubbing marks on the side of the exhaust valves rocker arm. When I removed the rocker I could with some effort push the shaft in and out with my fingers.



I strongly suspect that if the shaft come out far enough at the right time it would hook on the top of the other arm and that this could be one of the causes of rocker arms breaking?

The roller bearings did not have any play so I decided to just pin the shafts of both rocker arms to prevent them from coming out again.


Now to see how long my fix is going to last.

PS. If I ever have to buy new rocker arms, I would pin the new ones before installing them!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 02:34:03 pm by Gee S »
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Offline katana

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Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2017, 04:51:50 pm »
Well spotted and I think your fix will last.
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Offline Werner747

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Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2017, 06:36:54 pm »

The roller bearings did not have any play so I decided to just pin the shafts of both rocker arms to prevent them from coming out again.

PS. If I ever have to buy new rocker arms, I would pin the new ones before installing them!
Hi Gee S,
I will be checking my valve clearences soon.
Might be a stupid question, but how do I "pin" the shafts?

Regards
Werner
 

Offline geopat

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2017, 09:25:12 pm »
If my research is correct thats exactly why they fail.and that was also the recomended fix
 

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Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2017, 11:37:40 pm »
If I had a 690 I would immediately go and check after reading this post. :deal:
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Offline Rascal

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2017, 02:41:14 am »
Exactly what happens before they go bang. Rocker arms made after 2012 are pinned differently to be more secure. They still fail though. Please report back if your fix do last.
 

Offline katana

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Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2017, 08:19:06 am »
It seems that there is insufficient lubrication on that roller.
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Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 11:26:44 am »
I would rather replace.  The pin is supposed to be a rather tight interference fit.  It would be better to pin a new one.  However, bench press tests have shown that it gives something small like 20 psi more resistance before being pressed out. So, the chances of keeping that one located seems too little for me, personally.
 

Offline Gee S

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2017, 11:24:45 pm »

The roller bearings did not have any play so I decided to just pin the shafts of both rocker arms to prevent them from coming out again.

PS. If I ever have to buy new rocker arms, I would pin the new ones before installing them!
Hi Gee S,
I will be checking my valve clearences soon.
Might be a stupid question, but how do I "pin" the shafts?

Regards
Werner
I used a center punch and gave it a good wack with a hammer on the edge where the shaft meets the rocker arm. Did it on both sides
That is the 4 little dots around the shaft in the last photo
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 11:32:59 pm by Gee S »
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Offline Gee S

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 11:29:41 pm »
It seems that there is insufficient lubrication on that roller.
Not really. The bike have been standing for more than a week before I opened it up.
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Offline Gee S

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 11:40:56 pm »
I would rather replace.  The pin is supposed to be a rather tight interference fit.  It would be better to pin a new one.  However, bench press tests have shown that it gives something small like 20 psi more resistance before being pressed out. So, the chances of keeping that one located seems too little for me, personally.
To replace is my 1st choice as well. Unfortunately it would have to wait untill after the Koes Rally. I just hope it lasts that long.
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Offline Bill the Bong

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Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2017, 09:57:13 am »
Lets hold thumbs.  I'm assuming no stock in Jhb?  I replaced one for a friend 3 months ago, was less than R1k.
 

Offline katana

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Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2017, 01:06:02 pm »
It seems that there is insufficient lubrication on that roller.
Not really. The bike have been standing for more than a week before I opened it up.
I meant the original cause of the shaft coming loose.
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Offline Omninorm

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 03:41:47 pm »


Shows the cause the fix and seems to be the old vs new (2016 and up model) Rocker arms.
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Offline Xpat

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2017, 05:20:02 pm »


Shows the cause the fix and seems to be the old vs new (2016 and up model) Rocker arms.

Interesting - thanks for that Omninorm. Do the engineers on this forum who may be seeing this think this would work as a permanent fix of the rocker arms issues? Would resolve my last major worry with 690.

Offline Xpat

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 07:54:39 pm »
Got a bit off topic on the other 690/701 thread, so let's bring this where it belongs. I discussed with Omninorm if the fix in the video will fix the rocker arm issue and his opinion is that it wouldn't sort the noise in the engine, but prevent breaking of the Rocker arms - here is his reply:

"
Quote from: Xpat on Today at 06:55:14 pm
I have 2014, and it is already rattling like can of nuts. So I'm having Runner replace the rocker arms and will ask him to apply that fix you have posted. Just would like to hear an opinion of more mechanically minded people on that fix - will it fix it or not? Rocker arms are the only outstanding issue that bothers me on my 690 - otherwise I take it out into the sticks with confidence that suprises even me. So I really hope that that fix works.

Quote from Omninorm:
Let me know if you do it.
As I understand what I saw it won't fix it per se... But it will keep the warn bearing (pin) from sliding out and then breaking the Rocker arm. I suppose the rattling will just get worse and worse.
"

So my question is - what is actually the key problem with the rocker arms? I'm not worried about a a bit of engine noise - as long as it is not indicating upcoming engine failure. I'm worried about catastrophic failure out in the sticks (which I'm guessing broken rocker arm would be). So, if I do the fix suggested in the video - should I be safe in terms of catastrophic surprise failure of rocker arms or not?

Ta

Edit: Whooops - now I see that Gee S has done what that video has suggested already some time ago on his owh. Gee S - how are your rocker arms holding up? Ta

« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 07:56:34 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline zacapa

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Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 11:06:57 pm »
A centre-punch is mostly good! for what it can achieve.
 

Offline Omninorm

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2017, 12:05:06 am »
Quote
my question is - what is actually the key problem with the rocker arms? I'm not worried about a a bit of engine noise - as long as it is not indicating upcoming engine failure. I'm worried about catastrophic failure out in the sticks (which I'm guessing broken rocker arm would be). So, if I do the fix suggested in the video - should I be safe in terms of catastrophic surprise failure of rocker arms or not?

I reckon the noise will definitely be a signal of engine figure since it's the worn pin / bearing that will slide out, contact the moving Rocker arm and break it casting all kinds of metal parts to shatter. The punch will keep the pins from sliding out but not from wearing down. Eventually the roller bearings will be shot. But by then you are sure to have noticed it and fixed it.

I.e they are going to wear down. It's en editable by the design, but instead of wearing 0.5mm and falling out it can wear to say 2 or 2.5 mm before breaking. It won't slide out though.

I wonder if KTM would do it for you if asked and you show them the video.

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Offline Gee S

Re: Could this be one of the causes of rocker arm failures on the 690?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 08:33:51 am »
So far so good. I have been to Koes in Namibia and on a few other short rides without any issues.
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