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Author Topic: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….  (Read 7940 times)

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Online ktmmer

Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #160 on: April 01, 2019, 10:57:08 am »
I'd have agree with jughead on this. This would only work perfectly on certified AAA flat lab Granite used for hand scraping on machinery. Only then would would there be no deflection of the glass when you put pressure on it. By to that extent might as well just send in the head and block. Getting those 2 machined on motorcycles is relatively cheap since the surface being done is small. Since you are sending them in check if you can get a thicker gasket otherwise you will push your values out of whack and can get higher compression or less cc's.

Bore and Stroke remains unchanged so capacity remains the same , the compression will go up depending how much they take off. Often it is negligible.   
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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #161 on: April 01, 2019, 11:30:24 am »
In retrospect I should have just done it - but I was basically just cleaning the junk off of the head.
Penny-wise & Pound-foolish....  :biggrin:
Ah well, this is a learning curve too, so no harm, no foul...
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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #162 on: April 01, 2019, 01:56:31 pm »
So Blitsie is back on the bench in preparation of the open-engine surgery that we “think” is required to get the coolant to stay in the system…..
I will also be doing some upgrades and adding a few goodies during this process, may as well, seeing as he’s apart anyway, hey?
So, first thing, is Off with the Covers!! And the saddle…..
And drain coolant and oil…..



Off with the Air Box and disconnect and label all the wiring – just makes it easier to re-attach later.





Head-cover off, set motor to TDC and lock with genius locking bolt….



Cam’s off – re-check the valve clearance first, all within spec.
Time to remove the head…..





Now, with the head off, and cleaned of oil etc., we can see 2 potential issues…
1 – the red arrow shows the area where the blow-by is expected to occur, closest to the exhaust valves – and there is a little brown ridge visible, I suspect this is the problem…. That would be where the exhaust gasses enter the coolant chamber, causing additional pressure build-up and the explusion of the coolant via the overflow.
2 – Not sure if this is an issue or not – there are no cut-outs on the gasket for the water-chabers marked in blue, apart from the one vent-hole marked in green – anyone want to comment here please, any input is appreciated!!





Head & Barrel is going off to Cava Engineering in Jhb as soon as I can get a gap to take it – and I don’t have to remove the valves to get it skimmed either…..
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Offline Superkazy

Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #163 on: April 01, 2019, 02:58:08 pm »
@ClimbingTurtle Better hope this fixes it and it's not a crack in the engine cooling passages. Lets just hold thumbs and wish. This all is super PT that you have gone through. Those pesky motorcycle gremlins always looking for trouble.
Also based on the gasket it's correct here's a photo from motoworks UK website on the x-challenge head gasket.
 

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #164 on: April 01, 2019, 03:22:47 pm »
@ClimbingTurtle Better hope this fixes it and it's not a crack in the engine cooling passages. Lets just hold thumbs and wish. This all is super PT that you have gone through. Those pesky motorcycle gremlins always looking for trouble.
Also based on the gasket it's correct here's a photo from motoworks UK website on the x-challenge head gasket.

 :o

I think this is the answer... I hope so anyway!

That gasket pic is exactly the same as the gasket I have - only mine is upside down (depending if you are looking from the top or bottom of course) - My pic the gasket and head are upside down, so your pic would be correct from the top - the holes are the same, so it must be correct! Mine was original OEM part from AutoAlpina....
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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #165 on: April 01, 2019, 03:56:48 pm »
So hopefully the gasket is not damaged? Wonder if it is worth the while to fit a new one. Are there marks on the old new gasket? You might not see marks, but pressure might have caused some damage?
I don't know, just asking.
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Online ktmmer

Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #166 on: April 01, 2019, 05:01:53 pm »
Dont crucify me , but some copper gasket spray might do the trick. Even if you are using a new gasket.
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Offline Jughead

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #167 on: April 01, 2019, 08:31:02 pm »
So hopefully the gasket is not damaged? Wonder if it is worth the while to fit a new one. Are there marks on the old new gasket? You might not see marks, but pressure might have caused some damage?
I don't know, just asking.

That's the head gasket.  A new one will be required regardless of whether the old one is damaged.  Head gaskets are once off use items.  Once it has been compressed, it cannot be removed and reused.
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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #168 on: April 02, 2019, 07:26:19 am »
So hopefully the gasket is not damaged? Wonder if it is worth the while to fit a new one. Are there marks on the old new gasket? You might not see marks, but pressure might have caused some damage?
I don't know, just asking.

That's the head gasket.  A new one will be required regardless of whether the old one is damaged.  Head gaskets are once off use items.  Once it has been compressed, it cannot be removed and reused.

Correct - installing a new head & base gasket as a matter of course, seeing as the head & barrel are going in for machining, it would be silly not to replace those as well, the base gasket I "may" have taken a chance on, but the one corner tore when I removed it, so no option there, but thats a cheap one, around R120 - head gasket is R650.......
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Offline Jughead

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #169 on: April 02, 2019, 07:47:29 am »

Correct - installing a new head & base gasket as a matter of course, seeing as the head & barrel are going in for machining, it would be silly not to replace those as well, the base gasket I "may" have taken a chance on, but the one corner tore when I removed it, so no option there, but thats a cheap one, around R120 - head gasket is R650.......

@ClimbingTurtle, that head gasket is correct.  It has been designed like that by pimply nerds with white coats, thick glasses and many pens to force coolant circulation around the barrel.  Otherwise the coolant will just go in one side and out the same side, or pretty close to where it went in, leaving the remainder of the cylinder much hotter than it is designed to be.
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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #170 on: April 02, 2019, 08:41:01 am »

Correct - installing a new head & base gasket as a matter of course, seeing as the head & barrel are going in for machining, it would be silly not to replace those as well, the base gasket I "may" have taken a chance on, but the one corner tore when I removed it, so no option there, but thats a cheap one, around R120 - head gasket is R650.......

@ClimbingTurtle, that head gasket is correct.  It has been designed like that by pimply nerds with white coats, thick glasses and many pens to force coolant circulation around the barrel.  Otherwise the coolant will just go in one side and out the same side, or pretty close to where it went in, leaving the remainder of the cylinder much hotter than it is designed to be.

Cheers - I knew it was the correct part number, and they have all been the same (3 so far)  :biggrin: - but as I am not the white-coated, many pens (i do have the glasses, albeit not thick) techie, I thought a question would be better than chopping up a perfectly good gasket.....  :)
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Offline Sandvreter

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #171 on: April 02, 2019, 03:36:13 pm »
@ClimbingTurtle : Man you are getting good with this.
Thanks for posting all the pics and taking the time to write it up.
I bleed next to my bike , thanks.
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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #172 on: April 02, 2019, 05:39:46 pm »
If 1 is a sign of leakage, 2 and 3 are on their way as well...
Just as well you are skimming.
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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #173 on: April 03, 2019, 07:40:32 am »
If 1 is a sign of leakage, 2 and 3 are on their way as well...
Just as well you are skimming.

No - the area that is in question is at the tip of the red arrow below - there is a thin black line running between the barrel cavity and the water-jacket - that is where the blow-by is potentially happening. That brown mark is the burn on the top of the chamber, it actually just rubs off. But yes, it needs to be skimmed - just need a gap to get it to Cava.......
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Offline LegoBrew

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #174 on: April 03, 2019, 09:15:22 am »
Would it help to build up that area before machining it?

Seems like a recurring future issue to me?
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Offline Jughead

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #175 on: April 03, 2019, 09:51:34 am »
If 1 is a sign of leakage, 2 and 3 are on their way as well...

The area of concern is that between the green and blue circles, and yes @ClimbingTurtle, it certainly looks as though you had an issue around the area you indicate.
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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #176 on: April 03, 2019, 10:38:31 am »
Would it help to build up that area before machining it?

Seems like a recurring future issue to me?

Not a recurring issue, but a known one - that area I indicated is pretty narrow, and if the motor overheats in an extreme (no coolant) - it tends to "bulge" up/down and creates a very small, microscopic gap that allows compression gasses into the coolant channels - (incidently, this only happens when the motor is under load, not iddling on the bench, so not easy to spot...) I spoke to Justin at MotorradTech about it, he knows of a few cases, it is fixable in this case, but he showed me a head that was completely shot, you could actually seethe warp with the naked eye..... The overheating is the issue....
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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #177 on: April 03, 2019, 10:41:05 am »
If 1 is a sign of leakage, 2 and 3 are on their way as well...

The area of concern is that between the green and blue circles, and yes @ClimbingTurtle, it certainly looks as though you had an issue around the area you indicate.

Exactly that ring @Jughead - we believe a very light skim on both the head & barrel will sort this out, clean up the mating surfaces properly etc.
BUT it did require the head to come off to see it - very little indication (other that the experience of others) otherwise....

My other issue is that work is actually keeping me busy and away from getting the head to the machine shop.....  >:(
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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #178 on: April 03, 2019, 11:03:06 am »
Disclaimer - I sell them!:
Wonder if a BoosterPlug will help preventing the problem?
These engines run lean (towards 14,7:1) to comply with Euro 4 regulations, increasing combustion chamber temperatures, and giving rise to all kinds of problems. The air cooled R1200's are known lean runners, and they temporarily seize because of heat (the pistons expand so that they start rubbing against the piston sleeves, with the pistons becoming physically smaller). A distinct piston knock when starting up is a tell tale. BoosterPlug adds 6% petrol under load (acceleration), deceleration and idle, (in open loop, whenever there is a change in rpm or TPS) and makes the engine run cooler (it solves the pinking issue on the 1200 air cooled motors and others). More petrol cools down the combustion process. I have had many reports of e.g. KTM 1190s running cooler and the cooling fan not activating as quickly. In Blitsie's case it will reduce combustion chamber heat. It might have helped to prevent overheating in the first place...
On the side: feedback from 650 riders are that the bike goes much better with one installed.
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Re: The Story Of The Resurrection of Blitsie….
« Reply #179 on: April 03, 2019, 11:25:06 am »
Disclaimer - I sell them!:
Wonder if a BoosterPlug will help preventing the problem?
These engines run lean (towards 14,7:1) to comply with Euro 4 regulations, increasing combustion chamber temperatures, and giving rise to all kinds of problems. The air cooled R1200's are known lean runners, and they temporarily seize because of heat (the pistons expand so that they start rubbing against the piston sleeves, with the pistons becoming physically smaller). A distinct piston knock when starting up is a tell tale. BoosterPlug adds 6% petrol under load (acceleration), deceleration and idle, (in open loop, whenever there is a change in rpm or TPS) and makes the engine run cooler (it solves the pinking issue on the 1200 air cooled motors and others). More petrol cools down the combustion process. I have had many reports of e.g. KTM 1190s running cooler and the cooling fan not activating as quickly. In Blitsie's case it will reduce combustion chamber heat. It might have helped to prevent overheating in the first place...
On the side: feedback from 650 riders are that the bike goes much better with one installed.

Worth a look at the very least?
Send me a price?
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