Riding experience and riding abilities

[DavidMorrisXp]

Surely on the newer bikes the ABS is tuned for the dirt, provided you switch to offroad mode or gravel mode as the case may be

[Offroadrider]

If I had to tour from Europe to SA it would be called "The slow way down" not because i can't get on the cable but because I prefer to chill it.

[jaybiker]

As I mentioned on a different thread, it's on long rutted descents where ABS has caused me to nearly come to grief, and it took a couple of times for me to figure it out.

The hopping wheels cause the sensors to fool the brakes to release when you need them applied. It's kinda scary, I can tell ya. 

The ABS on my X/C can be switched off but it resets every time the bike becomes stationary - and on dirt I do tend to become stationary now and again. 

That's why I pull the fuse.

[Mikie]

Thing is, when your wheel locks up even a little, the brakes will release and you will have zero stopping ability until the system allows you to brake again. In mud or a slippery surface it is much worse, to the point that I almost could not ride my 1200RT off road when wet. Sometimes you need to stop quickly and on the 500 I routinely lock up my wheels, both ends, obviously not at the same time, but my riding style is such that I will crash horribly if I cannot apply the brakes when I need to stop. ABS is a tar system, unless some clever techie found a way past it at xxxxxx manufacturer.

  Bertie, its cos you forgot to fit knoblies

[jaybiker]

Just thinking, of course maybe on orange bikes with their oh, so superior suspension, the wheels don't hop, so the problem doesn't manifest. 

[Africanus]

The ABS on my X/C can be switched off but it resets every time the bike becomes stationary - and on dirt I do tend to become stationary now and again. 

I think you meant the ABS can be switched of on an XC but only defaults to ABS when you switch the ignition off.

[BikerJan]

On one of the previous BMW challenges a guy died as a result of the ABS not being switched off

[Omninorm]

Other then downhill decent I love Offroad mode that the 690 Dongle enables. Lock up rear whenever you want but the front will not lock up and drop you. It also helps that you don't have to reset it all the time.

[Dux]

My feeling is to learn to ride without ABS and traction control , if and when they fail you at least want to be in a position to be able to ride without relying on the electronics .

[Weedkiller - Adie]

Ek druk knoppie, ek ry, ek val.  So gaat dit aan vir baie jare op teer en grond.

Deesdae val ek baie minner.  Ek vra my altyd die selfde vraag, hoe goed is ek eintlik?  Hoekom val ek nou minner?

EK KONSENTREER MEER.

Meeste van my valle was my gedagtes op heel ander plekke as die pad.  Dit was selfs met baaisikil ook so.  Sederd ek so paar jaar terug sien my dokter het weer 'n nuwe motor met my geld gekoop het ek besluit om plan te maak.  Ek ry nogsteeds 500 tot 700 km grondpad per dag, Ry nie eintlik stadiger nie.  Is ek 'n beter ryer.  Dinkiesonie.  Ek ry partykeer met of sonder ABS, eintlik RY EK NET.

fokkit, Ek kan nie eers wheelie nie, wat nog van powerslide en en en.  Na meer as 80 000km geniet ek dit nog net so.

Ek commute NOOIT en as ek moet is ek 'n wrak.

Adie

[Straatkat]

So how did this riding skill discussion become a full on ABS brakes discussion? I blame Peanut for the diversion!

[Omninorm]

My feeling is to learn to ride without ABS and traction control , if and when they fail you at least want to be in a position to be able to ride without relying on the electronics .

I think if you rely on them to help/save you - then you are riding outside your limits. So I agree in essence with you Dux, however - when ABS kicks in even a noob, chances are good that you could have dropped a bike. So...bad for confidence if you sitting with a broken leg.
For me the safety features are there to catch me when I exceed those limits - I mean if you feel ABS kick in on the front in the dirt, or on tar chances are you would have locked the front and possibly dropped your bike if not for the ABS. - Note speaking front only. You want the rear to slide in dirt.

But I agree with Straatkat. This has now descended from riding skill to the validity of safety features.

[Weedkiller - Adie]

So how did this riding skill discussion become a full on ABS brakes discussion? I blame Peanut for the diversion!

Also  wondered, so had to find where to put in in my post. 

Adie

[Crossed-up]

Perhaps a distinction should be made between skilled riding and safe riding.  I've often ridden with people who are just as useless as me on their bikes, BUT THEY KNOW IT, and so they ride slower and with more concentration. Consequently they seldom crash. Others think they're Dakar material after a couple of hours and crash repeatedly.  They might even be able to do amazing stuff on their bikes but they're reckless, thoughtless, careless or just crazy.

[Zanie]

The voting choices are a bit odd. I could basically just choose "ridden road and dirt".

I have done beginner (multiple times) and intermediate off-road training, but no advanced courses (ditch jumping looks scary).

I've done funduros, but have not raced enduros. Some have tried to get me into the beginners ladies racing scene, but the event costs are high compared to funduros and the crashes are worse at higher speeds. A crash at just 50km/h during a funduro did enough damage to keep me off my dirt bike for 5 months. That's mental anguish I don't want to repeat.

I use my one bike as my daily commuter (come rain or shine or - in 1 case - hail) and for multi-day trips. Yet I've had no accidents on a tar road. My only breaks and sprains resulted from newbie-ness on off-road (when I had <10,000km of riding experience) and dirt bike riding while pushing my own personal envelope.

Longer time in the saddle = more experience and (theoretically at least) less risk, but there's no measure to indicate this in the poll, other than the "rode less than a year", but some cover 10,000 km/month while others take years to do the same distance. Perhaps a poll of "how many km do you ride per year?" with some options (0-1000km tar; 0-1000km dirt; 1000-5000km tar; 1000-5000km dirt; etc.)? I'd be really interested to see that. Or maybe this has been done before?

Side note: On an organised adventure ride, a guy raced past me on a narrow, rough uphill, basically forcing me to the very edge of the track and almost into a bush. I managed to hold it together, but someone new to riding would have hit the deck. This guy had Roof of Africa background. Yes, he had skills, but he was reckless and thoughtless. Not only did he hurt himself on the trip, when he hit a mud-hole on an otherwise gravel highway, but he showed a 60+ year-old with wife as pillion how to release all 200 ponies on his KTM1290. Later that day, that older rider (who'd never had an accident before) crashed. Pillion had fractured metatarsals (mid-foot toe-bones) and rider was very badly bruised and had to go to a local clinic - did I mention the rider was on Warfarin?

[Bliknêrs]

Your list only lists some not all options regarding experience.
Thats why the discussion is all over the place. Some consider ability the ability to slide and wheelie and some considers it the ability to stay alive after years of riding.

[Kaboef]

Perhaps a distinction should be made between skilled riding and safe riding.  I've often ridden with people who are just as useless as me on their bikes, BUT THEY KNOW IT, and so they ride slower and with more concentration. Consequently they seldom crash. Others think they're Dakar material after a couple of hours and crash repeatedly.  They might even be able to do amazing stuff on their bikes but they're reckless, thoughtless, careless or just crazy.

Spot on

I ride slow not because I cant ride fast.
I ride slow because I am shit scared of injuring myself.

[Dux]

Perhaps a distinction should be made between skilled riding and safe riding.  I've often ridden with people who are just as useless as me on their bikes, BUT THEY KNOW IT, and so they ride slower and with more concentration. Consequently they seldom crash. Others think they're Dakar material after a couple of hours and crash repeatedly.  They might even be able to do amazing stuff on their bikes but they're reckless, thoughtless, careless or just crazy.

Skilled riders are safe riders , they have the ability , they know it and know they have it in reserve if needed , but generally tend to ride safely and well within their comfort zone . When you are riding with skilled riders you will know it , these are the sort of guys that will happily ride  at the back of a group or if they are riding up front they are riding so smooth that they look like they are going for a ride in the parking area , they generally have nothing to prove because the skills are also a mindset .
The other type you are referring to are plain simple windgat riders , they think they are good and tend to ride way above their abilities , and do crash a lot , usually riding with no consideration for others while showing off their so called 'abilities' to all and sundry .

[Welsh]

Perhaps a distinction should be made between skilled riding and safe riding.  I've often ridden with people who are just as useless as me on their bikes, BUT THEY KNOW IT, and so they ride slower and with more concentration. Consequently they seldom crash. Others think they're Dakar material after a couple of hours and crash repeatedly.  They might even be able to do amazing stuff on their bikes but they're reckless, thoughtless, careless or just crazy.

Skilled riders are safe riders , they have the ability , they know it and know they have it in reserve if needed , but generally tend to ride safely and well within their comfort zone . When you are riding with skilled riders you will know it , these are the sort of guys that will happily ride  at the back of a group or if they are riding up front they are riding so smooth that they look like they are going for a ride in the parking area , they generally have nothing to prove because the skills are also a mindset .
The other type you are referring to are plain simple windgat riders , they think they are good and tend to ride way above their abilities , and do crash a lot , usually riding with no consideration for others while showing off their so called 'abilities' to all and sundry .

Having grown up riding in muddy wet conditions in Wales, I believe off road riding gives you way more appreciation of surfaces and what grip is (or isn't) available, this helps on both tar and offroad.   

[Dux]

The voting choices are a bit odd. I could basically just choose "ridden road and dirt".

I have done beginner (multiple times) and intermediate off-road training, but no advanced courses (ditch jumping looks scary).

I've done funduros, but have not raced enduros. Some have tried to get me into the beginners ladies racing scene, but the event costs are high compared to funduros and the crashes are worse at higher speeds. A crash at just 50km/h during a funduro did enough damage to keep me off my dirt bike for 5 months. That's mental anguish I don't want to repeat.

I use my one bike as my daily commuter (come rain or shine or - in 1 case - hail) and for multi-day trips. Yet I've had no accidents on a tar road. My only breaks and sprains resulted from newbie-ness on off-road (when I had <10,000km of riding experience) and dirt bike riding while pushing my own personal envelope.

Longer time in the saddle = more experience and (theoretically at least) less risk, but there's no measure to indicate this in the poll, other than the "rode less than a year", but some cover 10,000 km/month while others take years to do the same distance. Perhaps a poll of "how many km do you ride per year?" with some options (0-1000km tar; 0-1000km dirt; 1000-5000km tar; 1000-5000km dirt; etc.)? I'd be really interested to see that. Or maybe this has been done before?

Side note: On an organised adventure ride, a guy raced past me on a narrow, rough uphill, basically forcing me to the very edge of the track and almost into a bush. I managed to hold it together, but someone new to riding would have hit the deck.This guy had Roof of Africa background. Yes, he had skills, but he was reckless and thoughtless. Not only did he hurt himself on the trip, when he hit a mud-hole on an otherwise gravel highway, but he showed a 60+ year-old with wife as pillion how to release all 200 ponies on his KTM1290. Later that day, that older rider (who'd never had an accident before) crashed. Pillion had fractured metatarsals (mid-foot toe-bones) and rider was very badly bruised and had to go to a local clinic - did I mention the rider was on Warfarin?

I thought about it long and hard ,I could have had so many options but decided to keep it simple

What you have done is advanced rider training , basic training is what people do to pass their license

Enduro's are longer in time period and would be faster because you do have some really fast people out there , but overall there is not that much difference except that you have far fewer windgat rider in enduro because they don't like being shown up

The biggest thing that training facilities need to overcome is bad habits , these are not necessarily good habits and more often than not tend to slow people down or make them more dangerous without them realising it , so unfortunately time in the saddle is not always a good thing purely because those habits become more ingrained with time 

Refer to my previous post , these type are pure simple windgat and are generally a hindrance to everyone