Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: Skieting toll booths  (Read 2831 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: Husaberg (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 10,551
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2019, 08:55:50 pm »
I really don't understand why someone skipping a toll should upset anybody else.

Must be similar reaction to when a taxi zooms past on the left shoulder or gravel part of the road.

But why try and play police to try and stop a toll skipper?  Just risking an accident in a zone with cameras making it easier for the toll skipper to prove you did it on purpose making it your fault.
 

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: Husaberg (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 10,551
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2019, 08:58:54 pm »
They do have cameras and every once in a while especially when managers are around they actually do a follow up and issue fines which is apparently steep.
I am too much of a bangat,  and law abiding citizen so I just always pay.

Seems like it happens seldom. I know of one forum member who got caught although I don't think it was a 'fine' but they did take legal action.
 

Online Kortbroek

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2019, 09:02:52 pm »
I really don't understand why someone skipping a toll should upset anybody else.

Live and let live and stick with your own moral code and don't prescribe to me.

In that case when it comes to taxis and other road users, live and let live as well?  :sip:
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Online Grunder

  • Muscles can't buy mad dog!
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW F800GS
    Location: Free State
  • Posts: 1,654
  • Thanked: 169 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2019, 10:50:26 pm »
i love moral people , down with immoral laws

if they made child rape legal ....... i still would not rape children
Morality has got nothing to do with obeying laws.

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

Knew a girl Pandora once, never got to see her box though...
 

Offline Ganjora

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2019, 07:28:09 am »
Seems like it happens seldom. I know of one forum member who got caught although I don't think it was a 'fine' but they did take legal action.

bad example.
that forum member wears powder blue crocs.
 

Offline Cracker

  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: KTM 950 Adventure S
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 5,245
  • Thanked: 135 times
  • Top Biscuit!
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2019, 07:38:13 am »
Is that why they stopped him?
Don't let fear hold you back ..... take it with you!
 

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: Husaberg (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 10,551
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2019, 07:45:36 am »
Seems like it happens seldom. I know of one forum member who got caught although I don't think it was a 'fine' but they did take legal action.

bad example.
that forum member wears powder blue crocs.

Now I know of two.   :)
 

Offline Skootaboy

  • Member
  • **
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 199
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2019, 08:22:23 am »
Unless the laws have changed recently it is not illegal to 'skiet' a tollgate. It is up to the toll company to stop you and make you pay. The worst that can happen is that you are escorted back to the toll gate and made to pay.  However you can be convicted of running the traffic light at the boom. I have an issue paying tolls for political reasons. I don't see why I should be paying toll to some politically connected c*nt who sucked Zuma's dick to get the toll concession and now the motorists are paying for his mansion in Waterkloof with a Porche parked in the driveway.
 

Offline TheBear

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2019, 08:28:43 am »
I really don't understand why someone skipping a toll should upset anybody else.

Live and let live and stick with your own moral code and don't prescribe to me.

Similar to someone else driving in the emergency lane upsets some I suppose. 

Unless the laws have changed recently it is not illegal to 'skiet' a tollgate. It is up to the toll company to stop you and make you pay.

You are not serious, are you!? 
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 08:29:44 am by TheBear »
.#BRADICAL!
 

Offline chicco

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 990 Adventure
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 4,895
  • Thanked: 82 times
  • Revolution or death........
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2019, 09:44:18 am »
What the law says.
Section 25(5) of The South African National Roads Agency Limited and National Roads Act, 1998 (Act 7 of 1998) unequivocally prescribes that:

“Any person liable for toll who, at a toll plaza or other place for the payment of toll determined and made known in terms of subsection (1), refuses or fails to pay the amount of toll that is due—

(a) is guilty of an offence and punishable on conviction with imprisonment for a period not longer than six months or a fine, or with both the term of imprisonment and the fine; and

(b) is liable, in addition, to pay to the Agency a civil fine of R1 000. This amount may be increased in 1999 and annually thereafter in accordance with the increase in the official consumer price index for the relevant year as published in the Gazette.”

Therein lies the basis in truth where, in terms of Section 25(5)(a) of the SANRAL Act, it is indeed an offence to fail or refuse to pay tolls.
KLR650, KTM 950, KTM 990, HONDA CRF 230, KTM 990S
 

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: Husaberg (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 10,551
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2019, 10:01:52 am »
What the law says.

It goes a bit deeper than that.

https://www.jp-sa.org/e-tolls-offences/


And then many toll concession companies are private.  Under correction but that means they have to convince the police to open a criminal case? ???  Or they can take civil action? ???
 

Offline chicco

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 990 Adventure
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 4,895
  • Thanked: 82 times
  • Revolution or death........
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2019, 10:15:44 am »
What the law says.

It goes a bit deeper than that.

https://www.jp-sa.org/e-tolls-offences/


And then many toll concession companies are private.  Under correction but that means they have to convince the police to open a criminal case? ???  Or they can take civil action? ???

Luckely for some bikers and Gautengers.... :imaposer:
KLR650, KTM 950, KTM 990, HONDA CRF 230, KTM 990S
 

Offline Piet

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2019, 11:29:06 am »
Just a note to the guys who argue that it is not fair to be charged the same as a normal passenger vehicle - roads are designed to fail after a determined number of axle-loads and it boils down to contact patch pressure. I have not done the calculations, but I wouldn't be surprised if the heavier bikes did similar or even more damage than cars, given the much smaller contact patch.

That being said, both motor cars and bikes do negligent damage to the road, especially when compared to slightly overloaded trucks.

 

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: Husaberg (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 10,551
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2019, 12:11:59 pm »
Just a note to the guys who argue that it is not fair to be charged the same as a normal passenger vehicle - roads are designed to fail after a determined number of axle-loads and it boils down to contact patch pressure. I have not done the calculations, but I wouldn't be surprised if the heavier bikes did similar or even more damage than cars, given the much smaller contact patch.

That being said, both motor cars and bikes do negligent damage to the road, especially when compared to slightly overloaded trucks.

So many variables.  Overloaded axles can increase damage drastically and one thing not mentioned is the effects of speed.

 

Online Kortbroek

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2019, 12:12:43 pm »
Just a note to the guys who argue that it is not fair to be charged the same as a normal passenger vehicle - roads are designed to fail after a determined number of axle-loads and it boils down to contact patch pressure. I have not done the calculations, but I wouldn't be surprised if the heavier bikes did similar or even more damage than cars, given the much smaller contact patch.

That being said, both motor cars and bikes do negligent damage to the road, especially when compared to slightly overloaded trucks.

So on that note:

Small car like a daihatsu charade: Kerb weight of 760kg = 190kg per wheel and it has a larger surface contact than a bike tyre. Add 4x80kg passenger = 270kg per wheel.

BMW GS 1200: 240kg give or take = 120kg per wheel. Add 2 x 80 kg for rider and pillion = 200kg per wheel.

Not such a big difference.
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline chicco

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 990 Adventure
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 4,895
  • Thanked: 82 times
  • Revolution or death........
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2019, 12:47:11 pm »
Just a note to the guys who argue that it is not fair to be charged the same as a normal passenger vehicle - roads are designed to fail after a determined number of axle-loads and it boils down to contact patch pressure. I have not done the calculations, but I wouldn't be surprised if the heavier bikes did similar or even more damage than cars, given the much smaller contact patch.

That being said, both motor cars and bikes do negligent damage to the road, especially when compared to slightly overloaded trucks.

So on that note:

Small car like a daihatsu charade: Kerb weight of 760kg = 190kg per wheel and it has a larger surface contact than a bike tyre. Add 4x80kg passenger = 270kg per wheel.

BMW GS 1200: 240kg give or take = 120kg per wheel. Add 2 x 80 kg for rider and pillion = 200kg per wheel.

Not such a big difference.

Contact area of bike tyre much smaller so the point pressure will be higher?
KLR650, KTM 950, KTM 990, HONDA CRF 230, KTM 990S
 

Offline Piet

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2019, 12:50:41 pm »
Just a note to the guys who argue that it is not fair to be charged the same as a normal passenger vehicle - roads are designed to fail after a determined number of axle-loads and it boils down to contact patch pressure. I have not done the calculations, but I wouldn't be surprised if the heavier bikes did similar or even more damage than cars, given the much smaller contact patch.

That being said, both motor cars and bikes do negligent damage to the road, especially when compared to slightly overloaded trucks.

So on that note:

Small car like a daihatsu charade: Kerb weight of 760kg = 190kg per wheel and it has a larger surface contact than a bike tyre. Add 4x80kg passenger = 270kg per wheel.

BMW GS 1200: 240kg give or take = 120kg per wheel. Add 2 x 80 kg for rider and pillion = 200kg per wheel.

Not such a big difference.
Yes, so Charade = +-270kg/wheel, with a contact patch of (say) 20 mm x 160 mm = 3200 mm2 and the bike has a surface area of (say) pi*(25)^2 = +-2000 mm2. This makes the contact pressure of the R1200GS higher than that of the Charade.

But there are too many variables and we are only speculating. I just think that the "it's not fair to be paying the same as cars" reason for skipping tolls is not necessarily well founded.

"I'm a rebel" sounds like a much more honest and acceptable reason.  ;) :P
 

Online Kortbroek

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2019, 12:56:35 pm »
"I'm a rebel" sounds like a much more honest and acceptable reason.  ;) :P

Exactly  :pot:

Contact area of bike tyre much smaller so the point pressure will be higher?

That is the idea yes.

But this is a very generalised post. Just trying to illustrate how far off peoples assumptions can be.

I think make toll a bit less for bikes, but I seen no problem with bikes having to pay tolls like everyone else. I do however think having tolls in the first place is just double taxation.
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline Bikerboer1973

  • Groot Suzuki aanhanger maar eindig altyd op met 'n Honda!
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 1,441
  • Thanked: 50 times
  • Darem al weer 'n Honda XL185 plaas fiets.
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2019, 01:09:28 pm »
They do have cameras and every once in a while especially when managers are around they actually do a follow up and issue fines which is apparently steep.

I am too much of a bangat,  and law abiding citizen so I just always pay.

Have a look, the cameras face you when you come in to the booth so catching the front number plate on a car, does not follow you on the way out, at least the toll booths I go through.
Tans.
Honda Xl185 plaas fiets
Vrou se NC700.
 

Offline Leo

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2019, 01:36:40 pm »
This happened back in 2007

« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 01:37:19 pm by Leo »
Grey Haired Riders Don't get that way from pure luck!