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Author Topic: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware  (Read 37044 times)

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Offline Bottelboer

  • Member
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  • Bike: BMW (all models)
    Location: Free State
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Re: Name and shame
« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2020, 09:23:19 am »
Letter is actually useless,if from a dealer....why, coss even in a cash deal you need a used sales invoice,2nd, where is the FICA docs? 3rd the NATIS document? Just asking..
 

Offline Tyre kicker

Re: Name and shame
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2020, 10:55:01 am »
Hierdie ou is mos bekend en al 'n rukkie 'n skelm moer en dus sal ek hom gaan besoek waar ook al hy werk en hom so bietjie reg help op die reguit pad wat hy so duister geraak het.. :biggrin:
It's not the years in your life that count,its the LIFE in your years that count.
 
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Offline Rouxman

Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2020, 03:18:40 pm »
The following is current events.

This post will receive regular diary style updates from me until this issue has a resolute.

Feel free to share this far and wide.

There is a lot to read but all relevant for the purpose of transparency and honesty so get your popcorn ready.

Preface

It’s easy to think and say something however the doing is another matter.
I’ve been thinking about this post for a few weeks. I’ve been saying I’m going to do it, even to the recipient. But then, I think of his family, his reputation, my morality, my principles, forgiveness, right and wrong, the possible outcomes negative and positive and my sanity.
I also think of others that could have been affected like me, who, for whatever reason don’t speak out publicly, and others who might still be affected. Again, I challenge my own morality, principles and duty to the community in this regard.
As I’m typing this it feels more right than wrong so I’m going with my gut although I don’t do it lightly.
So, without further a due, I’m hanging my dirty washing out in public for all to see.
May you find the following informative, factual and may it have a positive outcome firstly for the receiver (he may not see that now), the reader and the writer.

Background

It 2009 I bought a new BMW R1200GSA from then Hamman Motorrad. The salesman and I subsequently became friends and times were good. He was a good friend in a difficult time in my life. In 2010 I moved out of CT and we lost contact. In 2016 I moved back to CT and we eventually met up again in 2018. We did a couple of rides together and times were good.
In Short
During a weekend ride out he arrived with a motorcycle that he said is for sale. The Mrs was in the market but needed to sell her bike first.
On the Monday (18 Nov 2019) I received a WhatsApp message from him offering us R45k for the Mrs’s 2008 BMW F650GS as a trade in on the 2008 Blue BMW R1200GS he rode on the weekend. We wanted R45k for the 650 so we were pleased with the offer and the 1200GS looked to be in good condition. We would also not have the hassle of selling the 650 which counts for a bit in my book. In addition, according to him at the time, the 1200GS had a full BMW service history and was well looked after. In my mind, the offer came from a friend and both of us had affiliations with the same groups of people. I felt it was a fair deal although the 1200GS was priced slightly above market (insurable) value. Since we got what we wanted for the 650GS I agreed to the sale and paid out the difference of R35k + R1500 on the road fee.
A few days later we had the bike and the Mrs was absolutely delighted. Another few days later the Mrs collected the NATIS from the shop and life was good. Since we live in a different district from where the bike was bought, we had to go to our local council in order to put the bike in her name. The bike was put through roadworthy by my mate who also offered to refunded me the R1500 “on the road fee” since we had to go and do the rest ourselves. No problem at all. The R1500 was received in full. Thanx bud!!
On 3rd December 2019 the Mrs asked me to have a number plate made for her. She gave me the papers, and this was the first time I laid eyes on the NATIS. It was then when I noticed the “Built-Up / Opgebou” on the NATIS.
There and then I realised we bought a Code 3 motorcycle.
I immediately sent Shaun Dickens from whom I bought the motorcycle a picture of the NaTIS asking him to explain.

Diary

Monday 18/11/2019
At 7:53 I received a WhatsApp message from Shaun with the following:
“2008 full spec met tasse boekie en spaar sleutel full service. Ek sal jou R45000 gee vir jou 650 lat weet as julle wil kyk”
This message was accompanied by three pictures of a Blue BMW R1200GS.
I then asked Shaun to send me pictures of the following:
NATIS, Service books showing services, Keys, Frame no, Engine No, number on back of speedo cluster.
I also asked how many previous owners the bike had.
Shaun sent me pictures of the licence disc, vin no on frame, a book, a key.
I asked if there is only one key and again how many owners.
Shaun responded and said two keys and two owners.
Shaun then asked for pictures of the 650.
I sent lots of pictures.
He asked what the mileage was, and I responded with a picture of the mileage. I also gave as full description of the current condition as well as known faults like the missing rear wheel guard.
Shaun then left me a voice message stating that the service light had come on and that one of the tyre pressure sensors is defective. He said that other than that the bike is in 100% perfect working condition and that everything is working. He stated that he would get the defective sensor repaired at GS Traders and give it a full 50k km service.
I then sent him a message to remind him that he told me on the Saturday that the bike had a 50k km service at BMW.
Shaun then told me that the previous owner told him that it had a 50k km service at BMW and that he would check with BMW. He also stated that it could be the annual service due light that came on.
I asked him if the book isn’t stamped.
Shaun said that he bought the bike from a farmer in Heidelberg and he doesn’t have the book and the spare key with him. He said that the previous owner would send these items to him. He said he will check with BMW and if it were found that the bike didn’t have the service, he would do the 50K km service.
At some point he also said during a call that the motorcycle still has finance outstanding.
After this call I sent Shaun a message questioning how he could have bought the bike and there is still finance outstanding. I also asked if the previous owner shouldn’t settle the bike at the bank.
I was trying to get eyes on the NATIS.
Shaun then said I must let him know when he can call me. I then called Shaun.
Shaun verbally told me that the bike is not a Rebuild (Code 3). He then also told me that he made a mistake about the outstanding finance on the bike and that in fact it had been settled and the previous owner would send the NATIS with the book and spare key.
He also told me that he spoke to BMW and there is nothing to report for that motorcycle.
After this telephone conversation I called BMW to check the VIN no for my own verification. At first the lady at Donfords Stellenbosch couldn’t find any info on their national database for this vin number.
I then asked Shaun who he spoke to at Donfords Stellenbosch
Shaun replied and said Eugene.
I called Dunford’s again and the lady found some info on the local database. There was a quote for R800 odd rand, but she couldn’t tell what for. No other reports that raised alarm bells.
Shaun then sent me a voice message saying that he had just spoken the previous owner (“die oom”) who said that the 40k km as well as the 50k km service was done at a local shop in Heidelberg and he (“die oom”) would also send the invoices for these services as proof since the book hadn’t been stamped for the 40k k m and 50k km services.
I then sent Shaun a voice note via WhatsApp. I stated that I was happy with everything (info provided thus far). I also expressed my concern about not being able to see the NATIs and that I’m worried that I discover the motorcycle is a CODE 3 upon arrival of the NATIS.
Shaun then called me. .
He then told me that I have a six-month guarantee. Shaun’s words to me were “as die natis hier kom end dit is n kode 3 dan gee ek jou geld terug maar ek waarborg jou alles is fine”. I then agreed to buy the bike for the offered trade deal plus difference in way of EFT. He then asked for my full name, ID and address.
Later in the day Shaun sent me a message saying that the bike will be ready in the afternoon the following day and that the previous owner would send the service book, and key with a courier. He also asked when we would want the motorcycle.
I then asked Shaun what he did about the NATIS. I also asked if GS Trades would stamp the book and in which account the money should be paid. I was under the impression that he would take the bike to GS Traders for a service. I also sent him my particulars as asked.
Shaun called me and said he doesn’t work for GS Traders anymore and that the service would be done by RCR Motorcycles in Bellville. I was aware of his employment status of course however I was under the impression from his conversation about the TPS sensors that GS traders would also be doing the service. This I’ll assume was my misunderstanding.
He asked if the bike was being registered onto my name or onto Salomi’s name.
I stated Salomi and sent Salomi’s details.
At 20:28 I received the invoice for the balance of the trade deal and at 20:42 I sent Shaun the proof of payment for the amount of R35000.00

Tuesday 19/11/2019
At 14:00 Shaun sent me a voice note saying that the bike is not yet ready and that we should postpone the exchange to the following day.
I agreed with his request.

Wednesday 20/11/2019
I sent Shaun a message in the morning to let him know that I had brought the BMW 650 to work.
The arrangement was that he would deliver the 1200GS I bought on a trailer and collect the 650 at my place of work in Somerset West. I also sent him a location.
In Shaun’s following voice note he asked to postpone the exchange to the following day since he had to attend his grandfather’s funeral later that day which he had forgotten about. (Sincerely sorry for your loss Shaun)
I told him I would collect the bike.
He then called and offered to take the bike to Stellenbosch and that we could meet at Donfords. I agreed and asked him to let me know when he leaves Bellville as I was close to Donfords.
He then stated that they are still washing the bike (they were washing the previous day as well)
I told him that they are going to wash the paint off and said I’m sure it’s clean already.
Shaun then asked if I could collect the bike in Bellville.
We agreed to meet at RCR Motorcycles at 16:00.
At 16:00 I delivered the BMW F650 GS to Shaun at RCR Motorcycles in Bellville where I then also collected the Blue BMW R1200GS.
When I delivered / collected the bikes Shaun gave me the yellow forms to give to Salomi to fill in so the 650 could be re sold and the 1200GS could be put on her name.

Friday 22/11/2019
Shaun asked if we could bring the signed yellow form to him. Since we were heading in his direction we agreed. He also said that the book, NATIS and spare key had arrived and that he would give it to us.
We met at his house. We gave him the forms and in all the talking both of us forgot about the NATIS, book and spare key.
I sent him a message later saying that we forgot about the NATIS, book and spare key.

Monday 25/11/2019
Shaun said that he is a bit busy but would let me know when the number plates and registration papers are ready.

Wednesday 27/11/2019
Shaun called me to say that he wouldn’t be able to complete the registration as we fall under Kleinmond. He asked for my bank account number so he could refund the R1500 on the road fee.
I sent him the details.
Salomi had a meeting in Durbanville and collected the spare key, service book and NATIS.

Thursday 28/11/2019
Salomi registered the bike in Kleinmond onto her name.

Tuesday 03/12/2019
Salomi asked me on my way to work to have a number plate made for her. She gave me the NATIS. This was the first time I looked at the NATIS. I notice the “Built-up / Opgebou” next to Vehicle Status.
Immediately I sent Shaun a WhatsApp message asking him to explain.
He called me later in the day and stated that he didn’t know and that he took the vehicle status on good faith from the previous owner that said all was well. He also said I must give him that day to find out as much info as possible and that he would get back to me.
I sent him a message in the evening reminding him of his guarantee to me and that he sold me a used two owner motorcycle which now turns out to be a more than three owner Code 3 motorcycle.
He then said he would call me the following day to sort it out.

Wednesday 04/12/2019
Shaun called me in the morning and gave me three options which he then put in writing.

See below letter:

From: Shaun Dickens <b************.**@gmail.com>
 Date: 04 December 2019 at 21:07:58 SAST
 To: f*******@gmail.com
 Subject: R1200 GS

Hallo Fanus,
Na aanleiding van ons gesprek vanoggend is daar basies 3 opsies hoe ons hierdie saak kan hanteer:

1. Jy neem die fiets na Donfords vir 'n 21 point check om seker te maak die fiets is 100% reg en net vir jou te kan gerusstel. Ek gee jou R10,000 terug afslag en ek gee jou 'n guarantee dat ek die fiets weer terug sal koop teen markverwante prys.

2. Jy hou die fiets en ry hom totdat ek vir jou 'n ander fiets kry wat skoon is en jy ry hom.

3. Ek sit dit die laaste opsie omdat ek reeds al jou 650 verkoop het maar as ons nie kan ooreenstem nie gee ek jou geld vir jou terug.

Ek het navorsing gaan doen oor die fiets en volgens die 2de eienaar was die fiets wel in 'n front smash maar was alle parte vervang. Ek is nog besig om verder informasie te kry en alle herstelwerk op swart en wit in die hande te kry. Die oom by wie ek die fiets gekoop het se hy het alreeds 2000km op die fiets gesit en nog nooit probleme gehad nie.

Sou BMW enige iets kleins optel sal ek betaal vir die herstel daarvan. Ek laat jou so gou as moontlik weet sodra ek als op swart en wit het en stuur dit vir jou aan (hopelik binne die volgende 48 uur).
Weereens baie jammer vir hierdie ongerief. Ek het regtig nie geweet hiervan nie en die vorige eienaar het die nooit aan my verklaar nie.

Shaun

Thursday 05/11/2019
In a WhatsApp voice note I said to Shaun that I would like to have my money back since he had already sold the 650 and getting the bike back was no longer an option.
Shaun proceeded to try and obtain info on the motorcycle hoping that I would accept his offer of R10k cash back with a dealer stamp of approval and the offer to re-instate the bike back to “used” (Code 2) on the NATIS through a “connection” of his at the licencing office.
I declined this offer and said to him I wouldn’t be comfortable knowing that it is in fact a previously written off bike. He said he would need to do that anyway for when he takes the bike back in order to sell it again. I said to Shaun what he does with the bike when he takes it back after the refund is up to him, but it doesn’t sit well with me.
He was also adamant to find me another suitable bike. I would take him up on this offer, but he came up with empty promises again which I started seeing as stalling tactics.
We were also pushed for time as we are due to leave for a bike trip on 15 December 2019. So, we would need the refund and was running out of time finding another motorcycle for the trip. It also put a lot of pressure on the situation as we stand to lose the holiday as well.
At 16:09 I gave Shaun a cut off time to find another bike (Friday 12:00) after which I would want my refund.
Shaun agreed.

Friday 06/12/2019
Shaun called to say he had someone interested in the blue bike that doesn’t have a problem with the fact that it’s a Code 3. I was very accommodating and offered to meet the person somewhere if he would like to view the bike. Nothing came of that. By now I als still haven’t received my on the road refund of R1500,00.
I then also noticed that the 40K km service as well as the 50k km service was stamped by RCR motorcycles. I thought this to be very strange as I remember Shaun stating that the previous owner said that although the book isn’t stamped the invoices for these two services will be given to me as proof of the services being done by the local shop.

Saturday 07/12/2019
I visited RCR Motorcycles to see Shaun unannounced.
I took the service book with as well.
I wanted to know where we stand with my refund. Shaun was still in denial about the refund and showed me a picture of a potential replacement motorcycle however, he is yet to find out all the particulars, as well as, whether it is available. I stated that we are “out of time and that the as per my previous requests, I would like to have a refund”.
Shaun said he would give me back R20000,00 and I keep the bike. I asked him if he could guarantee the mileage and he said no. I declined this offer.
Shaun then verbally agreed to the refund and said that I must give him until Wednesday 11/12/2019 for him to “release” the funds and return all my money. His words to me were; “wanneer jy jou foon hoor ping end it wys R80000,00 dan bring jy vir my die bike terug”.
We then agreed that the full amount of R80000,00 will be paid by no later than close of business Wednesday 11/12/2019. Please see below email sent to confirm our agreement. Shaun acknowledged receipt of my email. More on that later.
I then asked him about the on the road refund and he showed me the payment that he transferred of the R1500,00 which I received in my bank account on Monday 09/12/2019. Thank you.

I also confronted him about the service book that had been stamped by RCR Motorcycles for the 40k km service dated 14/03/2012 which I suspect is suspicious. Shaun was very defensive about this and said that if this is the case then he should leave RCR Motorcycles at once. I said to him he should that he should pack his bags. He had obviously forgotten about his previous communications to me. Shaun also asked other staff members about this and if they could identify the handwriting. Everyone was in denial and knew nothing. He asked a lady called Rene. He started by saying that I’m the guy with the Code 3 before asking her if she could pull the record on their system. Her first response was that she has all their historical records followed by a “nee wag”, then proceeded to explain how in 2014 they got a new system and that most of her previous records were lost however she does have some from 2012 still. She then proceeded to explain how a vehicle could become a Code 3 through theft, basically saying that it could have been a stolen recovered vehicle. She was obviously not well informed of Shaun’s research on the motorcycle since he found it was in a front-end crash as per his email to me.
She never looked up the service record on her system.

Salomi also reported that the left-hand heated grip doesn’t come on, the Tyre Pressure Sensors don’t work (front and back) and that the front left fork rubs against something (an oil pipe) when turning the steering a certain amount which I told him about. Initially I saw the TPS sensor to be a minor thing and thought I will replace the batteries when the tyres are due. The additional items raised concerns as we also found the right pannier had a repair on the mounting bracket as well as the top box has a crack underneath the locking mechanism. These now sound like nit picking but they were undisclosed items which started breaking down the trust I initially had in my friend Shaun.

See next post.... :(i
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 09:01:06 am by Rouxman »
Actions express priorities - Gandhi
 
The following users thanked this post: Mikel89, Meteor

Offline Rouxman

Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2020, 03:20:34 pm »
Sunday 08/12/2019
See email sent.

Terug betaling van motorfiets

f*******@gmail.com
Sun, Dec 8,   2019, 8:17 PM
to Shaun

Sonder benadeling van my wetlike regte.

Goeie naand Shaun

Na aanleiding van ons gesprek op Saterdag 7 Desember 2019 tydens my besoek by RCR Motorcycles en met betrekking tot jou epos aan my gedateer 04 Desember 2019 is die volgende van toepassing soos mondelings ook ooreengekom.

Aangesien die “silver 1200gs” nog nie beskikbaar is nie, julle geen besonderhede oor dit het nie, daar nie vir ons ń geskikde vervangings motorfiets teen dieselfde bedrag vanaf jou is nie en omdat ek nie gemaklik is met die gebruik van die blou kode 3 motorfiets nie (vin nr: WB10303008ZU18047 wat aan aan my verkoop is as ń “gebruikte” motorfiets wat eintlik ń kode 3 of “herbou” is).

Met die epos wil ek dus jou aanbod aan my aanvaar en in werking stel om my ten volle terug te betaal teen Woensdag 11 Desember 2019 waar volgens ek die motorfiets (vin nr WB10303008ZU18047) in persoon aan jou sal terug versorg.

Let wel dat sou daar nie ń geldige betalings verwysing teen sluite van besigheid op Woensdag 17:00, 11 Desember 2019 van R80000,00 vir die terug betaling van die voorgenoemde motorfiets deur my ontvang is nie, los dit my geen aander keuse om reg stappe te neem om die uitstaande geld te bekom nie.

Die bedrag van R80000,00 kan in dieselfde rekening betaal word waarin jy die “on the road” terug betaling betaal het maar vir gerief, sien relevante bank besonderhede onder aan:

Account details
Bank name: *******
Branch name: ***********
Branch code: *1*
Account holder: MR F LE ROUX
Account number: 2* *** *** 1
Account type: ********
Fanus Le Roux
**********
Sent from my iPhone

Monday 09/12/2019
I asked Shaun at 20:38 via WhatsApp if he received my email from Sunday.
He responded and said he will check and get back to me.
For his convenience I re-sent it via email as well as copied and pasted the content thereof into a WhatsApp message and sent it through WhatsApp.
On the road fee refund of R1500,00 received

Tuesday 11/12/2019
Shaun confirmed my WhatsApp from yesterday by saying “Dankie ek he dit so”
He also asked if he could collect the bike to put it back on for sale.
Shaun also informed me that he is going to re-advertise the bike for R65000,00
I phoned Shaun to ask him if I could expect to get my money tomorrow to which he replied “Nee Fanus”
Shaun received an offer for the bike for R40k which he declined. The offer was based on 50% full retail value at the time as this is all the potential purchaser would be able to insure it for. Shaun declined by stating that he is not going to take a R40k knock and would rather keep the bike and ride it himself.

I told Shaun that he could expect legal proceedings to be put in motion starting Thursday morning 12/12/2019.
I also informed him that I would be sharing my experience of doing business with him on social media should he not honour his agreement with me. He didn’t like this at all.

Wednesday 12/12/2019
No money received.

Thursday 13/12/2019
I went to see a Lawyer and filed for a civil case against Shaun Dickens as well as RCR motorcycles for the suspicious service stamp in the book.
This had no effect other than Shaun phoning me asking me a copy of the stamps in the service book which I refused to give him. I also said to Shaun that any communication pertaining to this motorcycle should from now on go via the Lawyer.

Monday 23/12/2019
I sent Shaun images of popular social media platforms to indicate my intention to him.
He responded by saying he will call me a bit later. I said it’s not necessary and that he just needs to pay back my money.

Monday 13/01/2020
Whatsapp from Shaun with season greetings. He told me he has a few people wanting to look at the Blue Bike and three guys who are really interested and that will have to put the bike on “his” floor because that is the only way that he would be able to pay me back my money. He stated that had the bike been on “the floor”, it would have been sold already. He said I should let him know because the guys want to come and have a look.
I didn’t respond at all due to my pending lawyer meeting tomorrow. I was also previously advised by the lawyer to not give him the bike without a full refund. These are also my sentiments as by now I have no trust in Shaun anymore. I’m concerned that he might sell the bike and fly a kite again on another deal.

Tuesday 14/01/2020
I saw the lawyer however at this stage I cannot publicly discuss the content of our meeting.
Having said that we are both in agreement that Shaun cannot take the bike on consignment to re-sell. In addition, the guarantee was to return “my” money and to sell the bike and then refund me.

I saw a post on “Proudly Meerkat” Facebook group from “Jumpers Place Willowmore” about a motorcycle that was given to Shaun to sell on consignment. This confirms that I cannot entrust the motorcycle to Shaun, even if I hang to the NaTIS until I receive my full refund.
After reading Jumpers Place Willomore’s post I contacted Shaun to congratulate him on his newfound fame. I also expressed my intention to publish our situation on Social Media.

He once again said that he really didn’t know about the motorcycle’s status. He asked me not to publish on social media and that he has a few people interested in the bike and that we can sort it out. He also said that yesterday there were two people who wanted to look at the bike.
He said me going to social media would completely ruin his business.
The following conversation took place.

Shaun: He has someone that is very interested in the bike @ R70k and he would then pay me R10K. HE said the person is from George and is coming to CT over the weekend and that he would have to view the bike by me if I don’t want to leave it with him.

Me: leaving the bike with him is not an option. The person is welcome to view the bike and if does take it, he would only get the bike from me once I received the difference from Shaun. I mentioned that after his newfound social media fame he might not be selling bike for much longer. I once again expressed my intent to take our matter to social media.

Shaun: I should do what I must do and that he also spoke to his lawyer. He said he gave me options and I don’t want to so we shall see.

Me: I accepted his offer to refund me but have not yet received any payment. And that is why he hasn’t got the bike back yet.

Shaun: Because he doesn’t have the money right now and he really didn’t know about the bikes status otherwise he wouldn’t have sold it me.
Therefore, he is getting buyers and the buyers can pay the money directly to me. He gives them my number and he already have two potential buyers whom he gave my number to and he told them everything about the bike.
Therefore, he’s asking me to be patient. The bike will sell and even if it sells for R65k he will give me the R15k balance.

Me: You told me the bike is perfect and not a Kode 3. Hence your guarantee. The best offer so far on the bike is R51075.00.
Shaun received an offer for R51075.00. The potential buyer contacted me and told me that Shaun had refused his offer by stating he is not going to take a R30k knock and that he would rather keep the bike and ride it himself.

Shaun: You and I both know the bike is worth more. I must get the bike to Dunford’s for a 21-point test. If I arrange it and pay for it can pls take the bike through for me because I have a buyer at R70k. The guy offering R51k is from Hermanus with the 660 Tenere. Another guy is going to phone you…Roelof

Me: I will take the bike to Donfords. The bike is worth what you can insure it for.

Shaun: Can insure it for R50-R55k for the bike alone and for the panniers and top box another R10k so R65k is acceptable.

Me: Top box and right pannier box is broken. R10k?
On his previous post I also responded:

“Shaun: I should do what I must do and that he also spoke to his lawyer. He said he gave me options and I don’t want to so we shall see.”

Me: You’d be better of spending your money to repay ALL your debt. You’d get much further in your situation.

Tuesday 14/01/2020
A gentleman (Dual on Wilddog Forum) who’d been in contact with Shaun came to have a look at the bike today.
This was the same person that offered Shaun R51k for the bike.

He took the bike to Donfords Stellenbosch for a second opinion. According to Donfords the bike is worth R35k. This was based on the fact that a quick look around the bike revealed R20k’s worth of repairs. This excludes if they find something with a proper inspection. Dual withdrew his offer and walked away from the purchase. (Good decision!!)

This was when I decided that it would be against my moral and ethical values to sell the bike (even on Shaun’s behalf) knowing what I know about the motorcycle. He has now refused an offer for R40K as well as from Dual for R51k (who has also withdrawn). Again, Shaun’s reasoning is that he is not going to take a R30k knock and would rather keep the bike (he doesn’t own) to himself.
To me, if Shaun wants to fix this, he would take what he could get for the bike and make plan with the difference.
That would be the honorable thing to do.
However, his only real option is to give me the refund and take the bike back as stated in his letter to me after which he can do with the bike as he sees fit.

The above was also communicated to Shaun.
Shaun’s response to this was that he didn’t want the bike at Donfords for a valuation but that he wants a report from them stating what is wrong with the bike because he has a prospect who wants to purchase the bike and would like the report. He also stated that he is trying to sell the bike to be able to return my money quickly otherwise I will have to wait till the end of the month.

I explicitly stated that he can do with the bike what he wants after I’ve received the refund and that I’m not selling the bike to anyone. I also stated that he is the only person that believes the bike is worth what he thinks it is.
Also, on his previous comment I responded that the Dual took the bike to Donfords not for his (Shaun’s) sake but for his own piece of mind.
I agreed to take the bike to Donfords for Shaun once he has booked the bike in and paid for the inspection and once again stated that I’m not selling the bike.

Shaun’s response to this was that I’m not selling the bike on his behalf. He proceeded to explain that the prospect from George has been fully informed of the situation and that he just wants to see a report from Donfors after which they can negotiate on price. He said he would make the appointment and pay for the inspection at Donfords after which he will let me know so I can take the bike to them. The report will then be sent to the person in George who said he will pay R65-R70k. The money will be paid into my account and Shaun would pay the difference.
(I’m unable to track the named person down in order to ask permission to mention his name)
Shaun then said that Donfords can only do the inspection on the 28th. He then asked me if I’d take the bike to GS traders as they are able to help him in the next few days. He offered to give me a loan bike whilst GS Traders have the bike and that he need the report ASAP in order to give it to this guy so he can sort out this situation.

I explained to Shaun that I don’t agree with him saying that I’m not selling the bike on his behalf. IT goes against my grain to sell the bike to anyone at all knowing what I know of the bike (which isn’t much actually).
My concern is buyers remorse in which case even if my name gets mentioned, it makes me involved in Shaun’s dealing.
I said to Shaun that he would need to tell the prospect that he will need to sign for an affidavit that I will give him declaring all my knowledge of the bike as well as a letter of understanding that indemnifies me of any blame or responsibility towards Shaun, BM Motorcycles and RCR Motorcycles.
I offered to make myself available to see the person from George between 7:00 & 10:00 am on Saturday 18 Jan 2020. I also suggested that the prospect should maybe first contact me and have a conversation with me prior to anything as this might also save all of us a lot of effort.
Shaun responded with a “thumbs up” emoji.

And this is where we are now. Other than Dual I’ve not had a missed call or a received call from anyone interested in the bike that was sent by Shaun.
Shaun seems to want to pass blame for the bike not being sold yet. It appears that this is his excuse for not giving me a refund thus far.
I simply do not have the trust in Shaun anymore to leave the bike at RCR motorcycles with him. Nor was it the agreement that should the papers come, and something is wrong that he would first sell the bike before giving me my money back.

Summary of Current Situation:

Trust
I’ve lost all trust in Shaun and for this reason I don’t want to leave the bike with him to sell in order to return my money.

Perceived vs Actual Value
Shaun has a perceived value of the vehicle and is not wanting to admit that the motorcycle is:
1) Worth what someone is willing to pay for it (given all the information)
2) What the insurance is willing to insure it for. (this I found out is normally 50% of trade value)

Vested Interest
The two offers Shaun refused to indicate he only has his own interests at heart with no regard to my circumstances, the situation or his future as a motorcycle trader.

Selling directly vs refund and returning the bike – ethics, morally
I’m not comfortable selling the bike on his behalf or at all. I don’t know enough about the bike and am therefore not able to disclose all information fully. E.g. is the mileage accurate….

Ethically and morally I cannot be part of selling an item I know for a fact is worth less than what Shaun is trying to sell it for. I would then become an accomplice to Shaun. There is no way I could guide another person into this vehicle to lighten my own burden.
The offer was to refund not to sell to get money to refund. If you cannot afford it don’t offer it. If you cannot offer it then say so and say why. This information allows a prospect the opportunity to make an informed decision.

Admission of guilt
Prior to buying the motorcycle a person sent me a message saying that this person wouldn’t have any dealings with Shaun and that I should proceed with caution.

I ‘m normally very thorough and would never have even considered buying any vehicle without seeing at least the NaTIS.
Despite this, I proceeded with the purchase, so I have my share in this situation.

I can honestly say however, had Shaun told me from day one that the “Oom” in Heidelberg said all is well but he cannot confirm anything until he has seen the NaTIS, I would’ve waited until we could lay eyes on the NaTIS before proceeding with the purchase.
Shaun keeps apologizing to me and that he really didn’t know about the bike’s status.

My question is, if you didn’t know what the actual vehicle status was, why didn’t you just say, “I don’t know”?
I cannot help but feel that Shaun abused a trust for the sake of a sale.

Conclusion
Despite no current resolve between Shaun and I re the refund for the motorcycle and this being an ongoing matter, I would like to put the following as a conclusion to the situation.

Lessons Learnt
  • · For your friendship’s sake, make sure that if a transaction is to take place, both parties are in full understanding and agreement.
    · Ensure that if there are any documentation involved that it is all there.
    · A situation can easily occur where trust is broken, even innocently, that could cost you the friendship, business relationship or whatever the relation.
    · Follow your “gut”
    · Acknowledge warning signs and research them. Where there a smell and all that……
    · One can get very resourceful in a squeeze. Use that resourcefulness before you conclude a transaction.

I see this writing as an opportunity for Shaun Dickens to rite what is wrong.
It’s never too late.
If one can be humble, admit a mistake, learn from it and choose to do the right thing, there is always room for forgiveness and a new beginning.

Shaun Dickens, this is an opportunity for you right the wrong……. ;)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 02:48:46 pm by Rouxman »
Actions express priorities - Gandhi
 
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Offline Kortbroek

Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2020, 04:01:17 pm »
 :o Fecking hell.

This and @Die Malletjie  's story is just a bloody joke. F*ck this asshole. If I was you, sue him for the R80k and get it done with. If ruled in your favour (which it should be) they will attach whatever they need to to pay you.
Good on you for treading careful now and keeping your side clean, and good on you for not keeping this a secret  :thumleft:

I hope you are able to resolve this  >:(
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline Clockwork Orange

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2020, 04:08:53 pm »
Not a good week for Shaun then :o :o
When in doubt...grab throttle!!!
 
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Offline Black_Hawk

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2020, 04:21:22 pm »
I've read your whole story and all that I can say is this is shocking and people like Shaun is disgusting  >:(

I hope that you will get your money back.
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Offline Vis Arend

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2020, 04:40:43 pm »
Nee flippen hel, vanwaar is die man?  Kry 'n mens werklik sulke skelms?  Hoe slaap daai man in die aand?  Gemors vertel ek jou.   :deal:

Sterkte en hoop als draai goed uit vir jou en jou vrou.   :thumleft:  :thumleft:
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Offline Knucklhead

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2020, 04:41:38 pm »
bliksem, what a D@@s  :eek7:
 

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2020, 04:46:01 pm »
Gentlemen , what we have here is a cluster fuck...

I trust you will eventually have this resolved to your satisfaction, good luck.
Born to lose, live to win!!
 

Offline dual

Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2020, 04:52:31 pm »


Mooi fiets met baie foute, bly ek het weggestap  :peepwall:
 

Offline Offshore

Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #91 on: January 17, 2020, 05:36:22 pm »
 :sip: Son of a Bitch, WTF.
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Offline Gene

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2020, 06:09:43 pm »
N mens is nooit te oud om te leer nie, of hoe, die opgewondenheid van n lekker baaik ai, dan aanvaar mens alles as vanselfsprekend.
Sterkte daar, ek hoop jy kry jou geld terug en Shaun behou sy goeie reputasie.
 

Offline Ian in Great Brak River

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #93 on: January 17, 2020, 10:53:53 pm »
Bliksem ... I am super impressed you got all that correspondence down in sequence too. One lives and learns.

All the best.

  >:(
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Offline Operator

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2020, 11:22:27 pm »
These kind of things happens on a daily basis in the industry.
Second hand bike sales are a minefield
Innocent people gets taken for a ride, cause they don't know any better
The ones that loose the money are usually the ones that can't afford too loose any of it at all


Just when you thought you've seen it all, someone surprise you with new bullshit.........

I advise clients regularly about deals and possible pitfalls.............. eg, code 3 status etc
Not so uncommon as one would think/expect

Through years I advised clients to walk away from deals and was even threatened with bodily harm because of canceled deals caused by my input.
Was told by sales people to stick to the insurance and let them do "business"


Fanus it took a lot of courage to tell your story, but it was the right thing to do.
The facts don't lie. You can sugarcoat it with bullshit but it will still be the facts.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 11:23:50 pm by Operator »
 

Offline Manic

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #95 on: January 18, 2020, 12:06:37 am »
Is Shaun the owner of the bike shop, or just a sales person?
 

Offline Rouxman

Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #96 on: January 18, 2020, 12:25:54 am »
Is Shaun the owner of the bike shop, or just a sales person?

I believe he trades as an independent at their facility.


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Offline Altie7deLaan

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #97 on: January 18, 2020, 06:56:31 am »
Nee man. ek hoop hier is `n goeie uitweg.
Of jy nou ingeloop word deur `n kennis/vriend of `n wildvreemde ou, dit bly `n skop in die eiers.
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Offline JustBendIt

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #98 on: January 18, 2020, 07:43:51 am »
Thank you for documenting and publishing your story here ... hopefully it gets read over and over and reached far and wide and eventually forces another dishonest dealer out of the industry

I am a used vehicle dealer - selling mostly cars but also do some bikes (mostly my own) - as Operator has stated above these kind of dodgy deals happen on a daily basis ...you won't believe the amount of skelms I have come across selling all kinds of patched up shit and blatantly lying through their teeth just to make a quick buck ... in my opinion it is not only fraud but theft too ... theft of someone else's hard earned money and most importantly, especially in this case, theft of trust ... one of a human being's most sacred "investments" in another

In short my advice is...Buyer beware ...triple check everything and make sure all paperwork is in order before handing over any money - especially with bikes
The older I get the faster I was
 
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Offline Altie7deLaan

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Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
« Reply #99 on: January 18, 2020, 08:20:12 am »
Valuable advice from Justin right there.
The golden rule mostly is, if a deal sound too good to be true, it usually is.
If you are not mechanically affluent, take a buddy along that is. You can even offer to pay to have a vehicle checked out by a 3rd party, like AA?
My biggest gripe with the skelms in our world, is that when things get too hot, they pop up somewhere else (usually in the same sector) and continue their bullshit.

I once nearly made a logic mistake in selling/buying a car, and Enzo gave me insight and advice and saved me.
At the same time, Enzo baie dankie.
Not only skelms out there, but also straight shooting warriors like Enzo.
xl185  cb750f  gsx600f  fz750  gsxr750  cbr600f2  cbr900rr cbr929rr  cbr954rr  vtr1000f  fzr1000exup  650dakkie gsxr1000k4  lc4 supermoto  bandit1200s   project fartblood (fireblade streetfighter)  f800gs 690 kaboem


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